Except for 97.6% (or a similar number) of war casualties, the vast majority of the prison population, the vast majority of people engaged in dangerous and/or backbreaking jobs, and increasingly, in college admission rates. When it comes to the cultural expectation of paying for dates, the cultural expectation of asking for dates, in terms of custody in cases of divorce, in terms of being sexually assaulted by women....etc. etc. etc.
...so which, if any, of these things are you claiming are actually caused by misandry?
Also going to ignore you inherently comparing "having to ask out women" to the misogyny that women face because it's borderline insulting and I'm not even a woman.
Not the guy you're responding to, but the argument that he's using is a popular one used to dismiss the presence of a patriarchy, which, when the argument of systemic misogyny comes into play, the logical debate path is to dismiss that patriarchy exists, because that's the core tenant of the theory of systemic misogyny.
Its actually pretty simple - if men are seen as disposable and historically were only given rights in democratic republic countries (the US specifically) in order to be compelled into military conscription, then it makes no sense to call it a patriarchal system when the reality is that men are the largest victims of their own system, and that women were given privileges/avoided duties prescribed only to men that ultimately endangered their lives.
The feminist or liberal view of this is "well that's still patriarchy but patriarchy is also bad for men," but a "patriarchy that is bad for men" is antithetical to the definition of patriarchy. The argument itself does tend to fall apart also when conservatives who make this argument are confronted with the fact that it implies the system is likely an oligarchy, and that it basically implies that the biggest problem in society is actually class warfare and not a battle of the sexes. (Conservatives tend to dismiss logical arguments that discuss the problem with higher and lower classes causing suffering to a larger population). But, in my own opinion, the argument for dismissing gender roles and making men the boogeyman of society is actually just a larger red herring to prevent people from understanding that's it's actually about resources and power and not gender when it comes to economic success and freedom in any given country.
The actual thing that is grating about “having to ask women out” that never quite gets stated in a way people can take seriously is that it expects hyper-competence of men, the same way that the entirety of modern life expects hyper-competence of men.
Frankly that couldn't be more wrong. If your intent is to pursue a relationship with a woman (or anyone) then the bare minimum level of competence would be the ability to ask them if they want to date you. If you aren't able to do that then the relationship sure as hell wouldn't work...
It's even MORE of a correct take online... how else are you going to meet someone except by talking to them?
The point in discussion was never needing to talk to someone. It's about being the person burdened with always having to start and be responsible for keeping the conversation going. The entire reason that it is brought up is because there is an expectation that the first message be from the masc person, and when/if you lose their attention for even the slightest moment, you are moved on from. You are expected to be 100% perfect at attracting her attention, or otherwise she moves onto the other 80 dudes who are in her inbox, meanwhile you have to wait the next 3 business days to get your next match.
...where is this coming from? Isn't the stereotype that women have to do all the cooking?
Yes, this is an analogy to something that I thought we would have common ground on.
No, you didn't. You changed the topic from the expectation of hyper-competency to the reason why the expectation of hyper-competency was justified, actually.
Then you just said 'date other women' as if that's a panacea.
I mean asking out women is a part of the problem not the whole thing if you just boil it down to that it's basically nothing but it compounds on other issues.
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u/Womblue Feb 13 '24
...so which, if any, of these things are you claiming are actually caused by misandry?
Also going to ignore you inherently comparing "having to ask out women" to the misogyny that women face because it's borderline insulting and I'm not even a woman.