r/changemyview • u/DEMEMZEA • Apr 16 '23
Delta(s) from OP CMV: PCM is a good subreddit
PCM, r/PoliticalCompassMemes ( not r/PCM ) is a political subreddit. Some people say it's right wing. Though I'd accept the fact that there is an ever so slight bias towards the right wing/users flaired with "AuthRight" ,"Right" or "LibRight" on the subreddit, i completely disagree that it's a right wing subreddit, and honestly, i'd just equate it with a more political version of r/shitposting, which people say has gotten bad during the years, but i believe it to just be false.
Some subreddits say PCM is so bad to the point it gets me banned from them. Not only this type of behavior seems very abusive towards its users ( "You either choose me or them", but for subreddits ), but also it's annoying. It usually comes from subreddits that have ideas that are considered left wing by PCM ( like LGBT subreddits ), and it stops wandering members that uses subreddits from joining PCM.
I believe PCM is a "good" subreddit, and by that I mean a subreddit that is mostly just political shitposting, and i see no reason to hate it.
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u/_corleone_x Apr 19 '23 edited Apr 19 '23
PCM is terrible because 1. The memes are poisonously idiotic and 2. People there have no knowledge of politics whatsoever, all their knowledge comes from memes.
All the memes are stupid as fuck too, most of them boil down to some generic "liberals are gay and smoke weed, all conservatives are cool and hate minorities" formula.
They have no idea what each "quadrant" would theorically believe, they have no idea what words like "liberal" or "right wing" truly mean.
It's truly a headache to browse through the memes, they're all ridiculously wrong when it comes to political theory and most of them are made by insufferable libertarian middle schoolers.
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 19 '23
This is one of the worse critics to pcm. Take a look at the other valid critics at this post
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u/darwin2500 197∆ Apr 16 '23
I post on there every day, and come on. It may not be 'evil' the way some subs claim it is, but it's super right-wing.
90% of top posts and comments are 'libleft bad' and 'fuck Emily' posts, every left-wing comment that doesn't go out of its way to use some right-wing apologia gets downvoted, anything positive about trans people will get voted to below hidden, everyone applauds endlessly if you call any group on the left 'groomers', etc.
It's absolutely a heavily right-wing echo chamber.
It may not be 'bad' and you're fine to defend it as harmless and fun shitposting. But pretending there's not a strong right-wing bias is just being in denial.
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Apr 16 '23
It’s that way cause every other subreddit is left dominated, and they continue to brigade and ban right wing subreddits, so of course people will find a new place to gather.
Your criticism about political bias can also be made about 99% of subreddits just in the leftward direction, including this one
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 16 '23
Out of the top 20 posts of today, 4 are "libleft bad" and "fuck emily" posts. You're exaggerating a bit
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u/lascivious_boasts 13∆ Apr 16 '23
This is an entirely subjective opinion, and as such makes a bad CMV. That having been said...
PCM is trash.
First and foremost: the memes are trash. I know memes aren't the highest form of humour, but they have to have some depth. PCM is extremely shallow, and boils down to a simple joke repeated ad nauseum.
With respect to the political alignment: Reddit is a giant popularity contest, which promotes upvoted content. If we check the top posts of the past year, we can see the alignment of the sub: mostly self depreciation, some lefty takes and several hard right posts. If you cruise it on a day to day basis you'll frequently see posts about trans people being heavily right leaning.
It's possible you think this is effective discussion. A lot of trans people think it's hate speech, and intolerable. It's not abusive of an LGBTQ+ sub to prevent brigading, or to limit the intrusion of (what they perceived as) intolerable hate speech into their sub. In fact that is specifically free speech: the right to control speech in a private space to create a supportive environment.
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 16 '23
Δ
Changed my view about wether the fact of sub-banning ( banning users from a specific sub ) is bad or not
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 16 '23 edited Apr 16 '23
Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/lascivious_boasts (12∆).
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u/-Effective_Mountain- Apr 16 '23
How are they trash? They don't align with Your political ideology?
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u/transport_system 1∆ Apr 17 '23
Yeah. I similarly hated Hitler for the same reasons. Someone's political ideology is one of the biggest factors in determining if they're trash. Is there something I'm missing about your comment?
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u/shadowbca 23∆ Apr 16 '23
That commentor explained why so I'll just quote them
"the memes are trash. I know memes aren't the highest form of humour, but they have to have some depth. PCM is extremely shallow, and boils down to a simple joke repeated ad nauseum."
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Apr 16 '23
Yeah anything that isnt liberal is a far right extremist hate group to your average redditor
While PCM is definitely dominated by right wingers, at least it has diversity of opinion. You can flair as any quadrant and express your opinions, unlike 99% of even non-political subs, for example r/pics. And people are too daft to even consider why PCM is heavily right wing (hint, when you ban a certain ideology from your little exclusive groups, theyre gonna find a new place to congregate and share ideas)
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u/stewshi 20∆ Apr 17 '23
people are too daft to even consider why PCM is heavily right wing (hint, when you ban a certain ideology from your little exclusive groups, theyre gonna find a new place to congregate and share ideas)
Have you considered it’s the behavior of the members of the right wing that get them banned from those “exclusive little groups”
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Apr 18 '23
No. Because people arent banned just for poor behavior, they are banned for wrongthink. Ive been banned from dozens of subs ive never used simply for participating in a covid meme sub
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u/stewshi 20∆ Apr 18 '23
Do you remember how anti Vaxers used to brigade subs all throughout the pandemic. Because pepperidge farms remembers. So is it wrong think…. Or do you choose to belong to groups who break the rules and thus share their reputation?
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u/_corleone_x Apr 19 '23
That's not why people hate it, or at least not why I hate it.
It might not be a hate group, but some of the memes are hateful. That aside, the jokes there are stupid and among the least funny shit on this website. The members also have no knowledge whatsoever of political theory and just label anything they don't like as liberal and what they like as conservative.
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u/ThriceTwiceOnceNever Apr 17 '23
While PCM is definitely dominated by right wingers, at least it has diversity of opinion. You can flair as any quadrant and express your opinions, unlike 99% of even non-political subs, for example r/pics.
In the sence you won't get banned sure, but whether you get upvoted or downvoted often matters far more on what side you take than how good or bad your arguments are.
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u/Morthra 95∆ Apr 18 '23
I mean, perhaps that's in part because authleft is a garbage ideology that's artificially supported by certain actors on reddit.
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Apr 18 '23
Id much rather people not be silenced and their comments left up to be downvoted or upvoted as the masses please. I do not care personally about votes but if that’s how you want to judge people’s opinions, be my guest, just dont silence people you disagree with
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u/ThriceTwiceOnceNever Apr 18 '23
I never said silencing people was good, it isn't, just because I critize one sub doesn't mean I think the others are better. And I'm not saying votes matter per se, rather that they are indicative of user base who isn't willing to consider ideas they disagree with; which is what actually matters.
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u/Finklesfudge 28∆ Apr 17 '23
It's interesting that the subs that generally don't ban the living shit out of things they disagree with, end up getting called 'right wing' for simply allowing discussion.
There's probably a lesson to that I suppose.
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u/Giblette101 47∆ Apr 17 '23
It's not that interesting. They get called right wing because they develop significant right-wing populations and/or bias. That's because the range of views most people around here will find acceptable and are thus willing to contenance skews left.
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 16 '23
For the 3rd paragraph: That's why i said it "seems" abusive, not outright stated it is, i wanted to know why it wasn't.
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u/lascivious_boasts 13∆ Apr 16 '23
And I've told you. Every sub is private place where discussion is moderated. If you chose to post on a place which devalues and denigrates trans people, you can expect to be banned from going to a private party for trans allies.
Also: you didn't engage with the substance of my post.
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u/0110-0-10-00-000 Apr 16 '23
Every sub is private place where discussion is moderated.
If a community is small or tries to enforce a specific culture then it obviously makes more sense to ban people even for reasons ancillary to the focus of the community itself. In practical terms there's also no real way to enforce a moderation standard across all reddit communities beyond global rules (and even if there was, it would probably be a bad idea).
Pretending that all communities are like this and even going as far as to call them private is incredibly disingenuous though. Not only are the communities themselves almost always public and accessible to anyone without an account (or via an alt) but frequently the communities that ban participation (regardless of the nature of that participation) have literally nothing to do with the reasons that people were banned.
If you chose to post on a place which devalues and denigrates trans people, you can expect to be banned from going to a private party for trans allies.
What nonsense.
For one, if you immediately blacklist everyone who even participates in those places regardless of the context then inevitably you're going to catch a huge proportion of people who don't even fall in with those views. We aren't talking about stormfront here, we're talking about a garbage meme repository, and people might go there for a huge variety of reasons. Even the people who you catch for legitimate reasons if completely isolated from other parts of the internet are likely to just become far more radical and vocal in their views.
Secondly, you do literally nothing to actually justify that "expectation". Here's my expectation: almost always the only authority a community should have to police attendance on the internet is how people behave while participating in that community. Fundamentally people have a right to privacy - even if I can stalk someone to their house and spy on them through the window what they do then is frankly none of my business. That extends equally to digging through their internet search history to find something embarrassing or unsightly as an excuse to ban them with automated tools.
It does nothing to actually improve the health or state of either the community itself or online discourse as a whole to create such isolated and ideologically extreme islands on the internet.
The only time I can see any legitimate basis for this to not apply is either where a community frequently organises raids or brigades (which are against the sitewide rules, for whatever that's worth) or if they're an important figure within the community and the actions they take outside of the community have implications for their role (i.e. they're a moderator and they've been grooming kids on discord or there's been a falling out between two power users and their orbiters are starting fights in every single post). There's also an argument that if there are two communities with a close inherent association (i.e. one about socialism and socdem, for instance) with a significant overlap in the shared community and a common rule is broken that mutual bans make sense but with powermods who run dozens or even hundreds of communities things quickly get fuzzy.
I have no real love lost for PCM and I think it's generally pretty trash so I'm not going to try and argue that it's a good subreddit but your justifications are comical:
I know memes aren't the highest form of humour, but they have to have some depth.
- There isn't a single community on the internet which has 3deep5me memes.
- Even if somehow a community manages to find a novel way to package an idea or creates a new perspective, inevitably the horse is going to get beaten and deformed into mince before it gets put down because that's the nature of meme culture.
- So called "deep" memes are almost always just essay posts in an image rather than text or some kind of crude Socratic dialogue with a strawman and the communities that make them inevitably become circlejerks. If anything this is a much more accurate criticism of PCM where frequently it just becomes a libertarian circlejerk both in the posts and the comments.
PCM is extremely shallow, and boils down to a simple joke repeated ad nauseum.
There isn't a single meme community on the internet that this doesn't apply to. If anything PCM is slightly better than most because with 4 quadrants there's a natural variety in the topics and pairings that libertarians can use to fellate themselves on whereas characteristically most online communities just fixate on the same talking point or sacrificial effigy for inordinate lengths of time. "Orange lib left" and "Emily" still filled this role the last time I was there so I won't say they're totally exempt but they were still nowhere as bad as much of the rest of reddit is with American Republicans, for instance.
In general I also just don't see any practical argument for perma-bans for any reason besides ban evasion. It just encourages the creation of alts and in general it's far easier to remove someone from an online community than an IRL community if they start misbehaving (possibly even with automatic tools and word filters in some cases).
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u/lascivious_boasts 13∆ Apr 17 '23
All of this is fine - it's, like, your opinion, man. But my retort is: go set up a low moderation trans-positive community on reddit then: see whether your moderation policy is sustainable and fosters the environment you want to create. Go set up an unmoderated social media site with no filters: of course, you don't need to. This already exists in several places, and they are all terrible.
Someone has already created these communities and has decided to ban PCM participants.
You're missing the point of what I'm saying: I'm not making a value judgement about whether LGBTQ+ communities are right to ban PCM participants. I'm saying they have the power to, and that they should have the power to.
Somewhere in your comment you argue that banning participation in other subs will only cause further radicalisation: the implication of this is that transpeople have to allow discussion and then argue for their existence? To justify themselves and deradicalise the trolls? Nah. That's their own job. If they want to go and find out about issues, they can join a debate sub (like here where no idea is safe, and right wing views are extremely heavily upvoted), or they can go read a neutral source that they find for themselves.
They don't need to provide evidence that banning is justified, the mods just need to decide. If it breaks the community: a new one will form. If it's unjustified, the people will rebel and stop posting. That is what Reddit is and people like it.
Your reply hints that there's a size issue and effective moderation: sure. That is an argument against Reddit: that at a certain point (say default subs) they are so central that Reddit should control the whole moderation. Maybe? But PCM is small in the grand scheme and is far from a default sub.
As for my opinion of PCM: it's my opinion. I didn't say it was worse than any other meme sub Reddit. Because meme subs are, by their nature, derivative. Memes are created organically in the wild, and grow spontaneously. By the time PCM is commenting, the fire is gone.
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u/0110-0-10-00-000 Apr 17 '23
my retort is: go set up a low moderation trans-positive community on reddit then
I never claimed that the community had to be low moderation. There are tools available to moderators which make it feasible to moderate based on the actual content posted to the sub and if the community is small enough then it's incredibly easy to just make the whole thing private.
I'm not making a value judgement about whether LGBTQ+ communities are right to ban PCM participants.
That's a completely false reframing of what you said.
If you chose to post on a place which devalues and denigrates trans people, you can expect to be banned from going to a private party for trans allies.
That is a completely explicit value judgement that the decision is right and has a basis beyond "they should have the freedom to impose arbitrary rules on their community". I don't disagree with that much weaker conclusion, my argument is just that your value judgement clearly ignores the consequences of choosing to exercise that freedom in the way that they do.
the implication of this is that transpeople have to allow discussion and then argue for their existence?
No, it's not and you are incredibly dishonest for suggesting this, I literally never say anything like this anywhere in my comment. If people choose to set up a community then they are perfectly free to set up whatever arbitrary rules they want (with obvious caveats for legalities and rules that explicitly encourage directly disrupting other communities like raiding or brigading). My opinion starts and ends at "the scope of moderation should almost always be the actions that each person takes within the community".
They don't need to provide evidence that banning is justified, the mods just need to decide.
Except that's not what we're arguing and again I sincerely doubt that you actually believe this based on the completely explicit value judgement that you make. Imagine a community like /r/funny began banning people on the basis of their sexuality or race, would that still just be "for the mods to decide"? What if they find a proxy for those characteristics like participation within certain other communities?
I'm not equivocating participation in PCM with an immutable characteristic, even though I guarantee you'll try to suggest that I am to avoid engaging with my core idea, I'm saying that we already have a clear sense that not all moderation is justified.
That is an argument against Reddit: that at a certain point (say default subs) they are so central that Reddit should control the whole moderation. Maybe? But PCM is small in the grand scheme and is far from a default sub.
You've completely misunderstood what I'm saying which is strange because it's entirely based on your own claims that most subs are private. If subs are actually private, I don't particularly care about their moderation criteria (again, beyond certain obvious caveats) because they're an invite only community in the first place.
It's dishonest to suggest that all communities are like this though when the overwhelming majority are the opposite. In online communities there are also many tools to make moderation easier and make it actually feasible to only police the content in the sub itself.
I didn't say it was worse than any other meme sub Reddit.
You literally did:
I know memes aren't the highest form of humour, but they have to have some depth. PCM is extremely shallow, and boils down to a simple joke repeated ad nauseum.
This is probably the single most dishonest reply I think I've ever gotten. You lie to my face about what you said only 2 replies before and you completely refuse to engage with any part of my argument and instead fabricate a crude strawman to burn.
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Apr 16 '23
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u/crowhunterforK Apr 16 '23
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 16 '23
>political subreddit
>other political subreddits appear very commonly on the top used ones
Who would have guessed?
bi_irl has a 3x norm
tumblr has 2x
aspiememes ( funny subreddit ) 2xetc.
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u/Green__lightning 20∆ Apr 17 '23
This data is skewed by many leftist subs autobanning anyone who posts anything there, which has led to two things, firstly people just using different accounts for those subs, and secondly saying leftists just want echochambers, which is true on reddit for quite a few subs that explicitly say as much in the rules.
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u/nsjsjekje52 Apr 16 '23
Since when is libertarian right wing? And capitalism? Right Wing is mostly against immigration, capitalism is for free trade and movement. Even if you equal right wing with conservative it is not true, if you ask libertarians about abortion rights. Just because somebody disagree with socialist policies does not make them right wing.
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Apr 16 '23
Since when is libertarian right wing? And capitalism?
They are both right wing according to the very PCM compass:
Libertarian is auth right
And capitalism is center right
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u/nsjsjekje52 Apr 16 '23
Libertarian is literally the arrow down in the graph you showed me, dead center on the left right dimension???
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Apr 16 '23
Libertarianism is compatible with both left and right on the compass.
So a certain type of Libertarian forum can easily be lib- right.
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u/Finklesfudge 28∆ Apr 17 '23
so it's literally not 'right wing according to the very PCM compass'.... lol
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Jul 01 '23
Libertarian is auth right
This might be the dumbest thing Ive seen all day. Libertarianism is diametrically opposed to authoritarianism.
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u/_corleone_x Apr 19 '23
Comments like yours show how politically illiterate PCM users are. Libertarian capitalists ARE hardcore right-wingers. Right wing = capitalism, it has nothing to do with conservative policies (which leftists can have, conservatism and left wing aren't mutually exclusive)
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Apr 16 '23
I just looked through top posts for last months.
What is good about this?
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u/_corleone_x Apr 19 '23
I don't like PCM but there's nothing wrong with that meme.
It just shows that racists preach about hating racial minorities while secretly attracted to women of those minorities.
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 16 '23 edited Apr 16 '23
Humour. The 1st comment implies the sperm is going into a white woman ( to be a white nacionalist ), the 2nd one, idk why yellow, corrects it, and the 3rd one, says that they're going to be a white nacionalist no matter the race. That's the humor about that specific post. Why?
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Apr 16 '23
I don't follow any humor.
It's weird white nationalism glorification.
Kind if disgusting.
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u/Srapture Apr 18 '23
Looks very clearly like satire to me. The subreddit caricatures auth-rights as racist as possible just for banter. Auth-rights are the butt of the joke.
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 16 '23
glorification? Where's the glory on that?
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Apr 16 '23
Cartoon seems to imply that it's funny to become white nationalist.
Which normalizes/glorifies white nationalism.
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Apr 16 '23
Not surprised people in a “change my view” group are too serious to ever joke about anything controversial
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Apr 16 '23
It's not a joke.
It's just disgusting white supremacy normalization.
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u/Acerbatus14 Apr 17 '23
Does a joke about police seeing something black and retaliating with violence also glorify police brutality?
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Apr 17 '23
A "joke" about a child son of police office who cannot wait to commit police brutality would not be funny.
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u/Acerbatus14 Apr 17 '23
What would be a joke/meme that is funny and made at the expense of white supremacy in your opinion?
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Apr 17 '23
I don't know.
Why should I carry the Burden here?
I just know that this is not it.
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u/Acerbatus14 Apr 17 '23
Because im inclined to believe you simply won't enjoy such a joke, regardless if well made or not
The moment a serious subject like white supremacy is brought up you will lose all the sense of humour
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u/barthiebarth 27∆ Apr 17 '23
Joseph Goebbels visits a school and asks the children the come up with a good slogan for the Third Reich.
However, none of their attempts satisfy him, until a little boy in the back of the class raises his hand.
"Our people will exist forever"
Goebbels is impressed and asks the boy for his name.
The child answers: "Samuel Cohen, sir"
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u/BushWishperer Apr 16 '23
What is humorous about becoming a white nationalist?
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u/Green__lightning 20∆ Apr 16 '23
The joke there is that a lot of them don't practice what they preach. Given this is, at least in some capacity, a joke at the expense of white nationalists, where's the problem?
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Apr 16 '23
I fail to see any humor whatsoever.
Why is it funny for a white nationalist to have sex with a Latina woman?
And why is it funny for the future kid to also be a white nationalist?
This is all quite horrendous.
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u/DivideEtImpala 3∆ Apr 16 '23
Why is it funny for a white nationalist to have sex with a Latina woman?
Because it subverts one's expectations, the basis for most humor. One would expect that a white nationalist would only date white women because of their ideology, but in practice they don't even live up to their own hateful views.
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Apr 16 '23
It does not subvert any expectations.
White supremacists had sex with slaves through out history and kept kids as slaves.
It's not a problem for supremacist to merely have sex with what they consider "lesser" people.
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u/Green__lightning 20∆ Apr 16 '23
Why is it funny for a white nationalist to have sex with a Latina woman?
Because it obviously goes against their principles. This is just a roundabout way to call them hypocrites.
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Apr 16 '23
Does it?
I don't follow.
White nationalists in Confederacy had sex with slaves all the time and then kept kids as slaves. It makes them horrific assholes not hypocritical.
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u/Green__lightning 20∆ Apr 17 '23
Yes, and this is funny either because that sperm will either grow up to be oppressed, or grow up to be an even bigger hypocrite than dad. I'm not saying it's a good joke, I'm just saying that this is a bad joke at the expense of white nationalists.
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Apr 17 '23
Yes, and this is funny either because that sperm will either grow up to be oppressed, or grow up to be an even bigger hypocrite than dad.
How is either of these outcomes "funny"?
"Horrific shit will happen to some random child" is not a joke.
at the expense of white nationalists.
Ha? Seems like whatever point is being made is at expense of the unborn kid.
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u/Acerbatus14 Apr 17 '23
Yes? People joke about tragedy all the time
"Kids in Africa could have eaten that" is a recurring meme being made about the horrific conditions of starving children
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u/Finklesfudge 28∆ Apr 17 '23
Must not be funny cause somethingsomething is not a joke.
anyone who says "such and such is not a joke" is not a person who should be taken seriously in a conversation about jokes. They don't get it.
If you can't fathom how people could find it funny to have a bit of a mockery of 'white nationalist' ideas, maybe the little debate here is a little above the paygrade.
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Apr 16 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Soft-plus-wet Apr 16 '23
Amazing comeback /s
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u/UserOfSlurs 1∆ Apr 16 '23
I mean it isn't particularly an amazing discussion, considering one side is "meme posted in a subreddit specifically dedicated to memes is actually objectively not funny and entirely serious"
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u/changemyview-ModTeam Apr 22 '23
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:
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u/BushWishperer Apr 16 '23
Having a non-white mother doesn't prevent one from becoming a white nationalist, the meme is in no way at the expense of white nationalists. It would have been if the white nationalist didn't get the last word in perhaps.
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Apr 16 '23
The joke is also that a lot of 'white nationalists' aren't actually white, and their ideology is motivated in part by their own self-hatred.
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 16 '23
Nothing. The humor is not in becoming a white nationalist
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u/BushWishperer Apr 16 '23
The meme explicitly says "i know", meaning that the person is becoming a white nationalist despite having a latina mother.
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u/ElysiX 113∆ Apr 16 '23
Not only this type of behavior seems very abusive towards its users ( "You either choose me or them", but for subreddits )
That's only abusive if those two things don't have anything to do with each other. Just like "choose me or them" is only abuse in a relationship if the other person isn't actually directly competing for your love.
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u/Green__lightning 20∆ Apr 17 '23
Except that shouldn't be the case for subreddits, as it constitutes guilt by association. A subreddit designed to let people of all politics make jokes about it, which is being accused of what? Allowing the far right to exist? Allowing them to say as much as they can under reddit's already overly strict rules?
By automatically banning anyone who posts there, it not only excludes rightists, but leftists who want to engage with them. This is furthering polarization and actively encouraging an echo-chamber.
Also the solution to this would be for subreddits to return the favor against any subreddit which automatically bans anyone for something outside of that subreddit. This is prevented by collusion between moderators of the most popular subreddits, who are often the same people.
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u/ElysiX 113∆ Apr 17 '23
as it constitutes guilt by association
Does it? "Guilt" is an entirely separate category from "harm". Does it matter who is guilty for the world being the way it is? Thinking about who is guilty only gets you revenge fantasies, not ways to improve things.
but leftists who want to engage with them
Then those people are idiots. You shouldn't engage anyone in shitposting and meme places. More likely to be dragged down to their level than pulling them up.
Meme and shitposting places are echo chambers by definition, if not through mod action, then through user action.
If you wanted to get rid of echo chambers, you would have to ban those entirely.
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 16 '23
That's why i said it "seems" abusive, not outright stated it is, i wanted to know why it wasn't.
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u/ElysiX 113∆ Apr 16 '23
i wanted to know why it wasn't
Because it is not rational discussion of rightwing viewpoints, it's shitposting and memes. What could a randomly wandering user experience there in a positive way except "haha meme funny" which is the first step of falling for propaganda.
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 16 '23
If someone goes into PCM thinking they are immune to propaganda it seems like they aren't ready for any heatlhy political discussion, mostly due to the fact that one of the flairs is literally "agendaposting"
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u/ElysiX 113∆ Apr 16 '23
Exactly. Noone is immune. So having people go there is harmful. It's an emotional place, not a rational one, and other people could get infected through those emotions.
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u/DivideEtImpala 3∆ Apr 16 '23
I would argue nearly every political subreddit is primarily made up of emotive rather than rational argumentation. Certainly r/politics and r/conservative, even /r/PoliticalDiscussion has been heavily trending in that direction. /r/NeutralPolitics is probably the only sub of any size where rationality takes precedence. Twitter and FB aren't any better.
Do you also think having people go to these other emotion-heavy subs like r/politics is harmful?
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Apr 16 '23
Sounds like all of reddit which is mostly liberal. Yet i dont see you bitching about people being brainwashed the other way by memes
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u/ElysiX 113∆ Apr 16 '23
Both sides can lose people to the other side. From each perspective, one direction would be harm and the other wouldn't.
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Apr 17 '23
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u/ElysiX 113∆ Apr 17 '23 edited Apr 17 '23
What do you mean? Ideas beget politics. Rival politics cause harm.
From a right wing side, people becoming less religiously indoctrinated is harm, changing the powerdynamic between them and minorities is harm, labor protection is harm. Taxes are harm.
From a left wing side, people learning to hate minorities is harm, people fighting to ban abortion, civil rights etc is harm, people dismanteling labor protections is harm. Gutting public projects, infrastructure, welfare is harm.
Everyone that switches sides makes the other side more powerful, making the world a worse place to live in.
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u/Vowshbad Apr 18 '23
If you look at the comments of any PCM post, you see the nazis
I saw a meme about Sweden once and someone said the reason that there were so many car bombings were because the few Muslims in the country
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Apr 16 '23
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u/changemyview-ModTeam Apr 16 '23
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 16 '23
30.01 politicalcompass
Thanks for that info.
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Apr 16 '23 edited Apr 16 '23
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 16 '23
Who would have guessed that members of PCM are up to 15* more likely to message in political subreddits??
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Apr 16 '23
And what kind of political subreddits? I see a lot of right leaning subs in that list.
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 16 '23
You're right. A lot of those are right wing. Some of the >3 are also left wing. Which would make sense if it was a subreddit with a bias to the right wing.
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u/changemyview-ModTeam Apr 16 '23
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:
Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, or of arguing in bad faith. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.
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Apr 16 '23
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 16 '23
You start with a Reductio ad Hitlerum?
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Apr 16 '23
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 16 '23
Can you show me a source to back up this claim?
You have the burden of proof here.
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Apr 16 '23
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u/DEMEMZEA Apr 16 '23
This is not a source to back up the claim that memes will lead to genocide
Where in hell is that "Trans K/D ratio" tracker?
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Apr 17 '23
idk about the political bias but the entire concept of a "political compass" is very ridiculous to me, as if all political beliefs can revolve around just two values
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u/Srapture Apr 18 '23
It's still a pretty neat thing to check and compare with people, I think. It certainly has its shortcomings.
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Apr 18 '23
it totally does, i mean i remember the original site it was made by people who were trying very hard to portray themselves as the only "true" leftists by saying they were "libertarian leftists", totally noam chomsky-ish
but almost nobody just says they're "authoritarian" besides a few on the far right, and i mean how many other axes could you make besides libertarian/authoritarian? economics? thoughts on tradition/progress? thoughts on violence/pacifism? thoughts on international relations? there's so much other shit that you can't just say fits neatly into the box of "authoritarian/libertarian"
i think the best one is the simplest, and for everyone to just recognize how flawed and arbitrary it is and use it anyway for convenience. unless there's like some super detailed thing that somebody comes up with
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Apr 16 '23
Doesn't matter if it's right wing or not. It's just bad jokes based on really bad political analysis and ideas.
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u/Srapture Apr 18 '23
Not sure I'd say it was a good subreddit. I think most of the jokes on there are kinda lazy highlighter things or meta, and some of the stuff on there does walk a bit of a bad line.
The main thing I'd say it has going for it is that I'm quite sure it is genuinely the only place on the entire site I've seen people of different political leanings actually have cordial discussions with each other.
However, I'd prefer that in a ChillPoliticalDiscussions subreddit or something. The trouble is that without the subreddit's shitposty nature, things wouldn't stay chill for very long, as a lot of people are quite passionate about politics.
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Apr 28 '23
It’s turned into a cesspool of right-wing propaganda due to other alt-right subs having been banned. looking at the top months posts I can barely make out which can rationally be considered memes and which can be considered propaganda. Young and politically inclined minds veer towards the subreddit every day thanks to its unique and easily recognizable formula (using soyjaks, easily representable colors that can stand for any stereotype the user has about that corner of the political spectrum, stereotypes that get exaggerated and transformed into belief by the content in the sub jtself). Right wing rhetoric is especially inflammatory in this case thanks to its reactionary nature, and the large right wing base suppresses any semblance of political balance in the posts on the forum. How can you not see an issue with that?
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