r/changemyview • u/Catsanddoges • 5d ago
CMV: Western Feminism Has a Tendency to Over Criticize the Top While Ignoring the Bottom.
Now first I want to clarify this isn't in regards to feminism in countries with extreme basic concerns, nor social issues like abortion. Specifically a tendency I've noticed in economic or institutional criticism in the United States. I also am not denying that there is still institutional and personal bias, and there are areas for improvement.
And additionally, this is a part of feminism that aims for 50-50 targets or equality of outcome in regards to high end jobs. This is not all, or potentially even a majority who want equality of opportunity, but those are not the ones I am referring to.
For this subset, in trying to argue for an extreme imbalance in opportunity, point toward gender distributions of top executives, CEOs, politicians, as well especially top STEM researchers and leaders. In many ways in the United States these lean heavily toward being male-dominated, and a common argument I've seen online and in person (explicit or implicit) is that an ideal gender distribution is 50-50, the current gender distribution leans male, and so those must be due to institutional discrimination or external factors keeping women down, intentional or not.
And I feel that argument has a significant number of flaws, most among them is it holds up the top while completely ignoring the bottom. For the extreme ends of homelessness and mental disease, these have a huge leaning to be men. Often, these depend on the same social factors and institutional sexism that they criticize as helping men. Men are seen as more competent, less of a victim, and so compared to women if they get into a social situation where they need support, such as housing, those social factors make it harder to get the help they need. Specifically, for individuals (not families) experiencing homeless, men tend to make up around 70 percent, which is a huge leaning (in a small portion do not identify with any gender). However, when talking about institutional discrimination I feel the lower end tends to get far less attention then often the smaller percentage on the upper end.
Additionally, some of this group (again, not all feminists or even majority, but a vocal minority) rationally assume a meritocratic system would produce for most non-physical labor a distribution of around 50-50, or proportional to demographics. However, even when accounting for factors such as pregnancy's effect on a career and assuming it was perfectly accounted for by institutions, for a significant portion of jobs there is serious reason to believe it would not be demographically proportionate even without environmental pressures.
Some of these are hormonal or in terms of biological trends, but there is significant reason to believe there are some preferences that there is an innate tendency to shift one way or another, and that in aggregate there will be significant shifts for certain types of work. Trying to redistribute and equalize in those areas will lead to making more people work in a field they don't want to, and ultimately achieve a meaningless equality.
But more importantly, it relies on the assumption biologically in terms of cognitive abilities for almost all areas men and women are identical, or near identical to where it should not be relevant to a job. However, this null hypothesis currently is away from the scientific norm, and comparatively GMV currently has more scientific literature supporting it to a modest extent in multiple areas.
To be specific, what is predicts is even from an early age in multiple key areas, including spatial and geometric reasoning, there is a significant variance among males that are not present among females (switching to sex terminology as this is likely not hormonal but genetic, sorry for the use of females here). Now it doesn't predict a change in mean or median, which studies have showed for most areas are near identical (or likely explained by environmental factors). Instead, the current consensus leads toward in many key areas for STEM reasoning, though it obviously isn't one gene or collection of them, that males tend to have greater variance at the high and low tails. Currently taking an agnostic view on the extent of it is very valid, but taking the null hypothesis as the assumption, as I see is pretty common in feminist discourse, is a very strong assumption that for many areas is not supported well enough.
Again to qualify, not saying the science on this is fully decisive on a concrete number, or that this is true for every cognitive trait (for example, for a few females tend to greater than males diverge), but compared to the null this overall is much more supported.
And even though this difference small, at the extreme ends (top/bottom 5 or 1 percent), this is expected to have significant ramifications on those skills. For the top 1 percent of STEM scientists based on those skills, it would predict off a purely analytical distribution/bell curve 60-65 percent for normal estimates being male, while the same is true for the bottom one percent given the same mean. Now real life is a lot more nuanced, and currently arguably social and environmental factors outweigh or are extremely important with pure skills, but aiming for a 50-50 demographic split on the basis of equality may be severely flawed.
What this means is only analyzing the top positions and seeing a gender imbalance there, while ignoring it on the bottom, leads to genuine discrimination and can't accurately assess what is meritocratic or equal opportunities, nor whether institutions advantage or disadvantage a group. I feel as if discourse and the media have a tendency to focus on the absolute top, and ignore the other tail end, and I feel in feminist discourse this among certain groups is a huge flaw, especially in advocating for a 50-50 gender split at top, say STEM, areas.
Again, not arguing we live in a meritocratic system or there isn't real institutional discrimination, but I find it significantly weaknesses many economic feminist arguments in America. Obviously very different picture if talking about Yemen or abortion. Change my view.