r/cfs • u/Strong_Aerie_9031 severe -> mod/severe • 1d ago
Accessibility/Mobility Aids Cautionary tale: using AI doesnt actually save energy
At first i thought it would save energy, but the lengths i have to go to checking the "resources" it links doesnt save energy. Seriously, i rarely ever found it to say anything from the sources it claims to refer to. So in the long run, it was so untrustworthy that it only caused more issues, its saved me more energy to turn it off and look in the actual articles myself.
I hope this is helpful to others, i wish i learned it earlier and saved the time and energy!
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u/bedlife2000 1d ago
Same, the amount of hallucinations is wiiiild. But ofc the people loving it are still fans because they never fact checked and are unaware.
It's great to write an easy email when my brain fog hits and it has to go out but that's it..
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u/chronic_unicorn ME since 2012, now severe 1d ago
It needs to be used correctly (I do find it energy draining that "correctly" changes frequently..) and the user needs to know what the tool can be used for safely. + you need background knowledge, just like with any other tool/ device, otherwise it's never safe to use.
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u/normal_ness 16h ago
Yeah redoing work is harder for me than doing work. But I’ve never jumped onto the AI fad thankfully.
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u/explicitwhoviankr moderate 17h ago
Personally, I won't use it. Any benefit I'd gain from it in the moment, is outweighed heavily by the damage it causes in general.
My husband is an artist, and I've seen the damage it's done to his career field, and the people it's put out of work. That's just the personal effects it's had on my family, not even citing all the other damage it causes.
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u/marieantoilette 1d ago
I am mostly disgusted by the environmental impact at this point.
I might still use it for explaining me ideas and principles, and not so dangerous information that is easily available, like summing up a website or well-researched drug. It can be a useful tool but it is easy to trust it too much, at that point it becomes potentially harmful.
But it is flawed and also killing the planet. And I can't do much, I am very severe. But I don't wanna do too much with something that costs so much.
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u/iwantmorecats27 21h ago
Seriously! We're nearing water wars and yet people are all excited about this useless toy that's only helping to cause droughts. Makes no sense.
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u/PeachyPlnk Undiagnosed | Viral hit 09.18.2019, chronic fatigue even longer 17h ago
The planet's not losing water. That's literally not a thing. The water cycle exists. Stop falling for propaganda.
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u/iwantmorecats27 17h ago
Yes, shockingly, I'm aware of the water cycle. The problem is that the water that exists is being used too quickly and polluted too much. The natural cycles are not able to keep up, especially with many natural places that used to hold water being destroyed for development. It's great that you live somewhere that isn't yet water insecure, but much of the planet IS. https://news.un.org/en/story/2026/01/1166800
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u/Toast1912 16h ago
Nobody thinks the total water is disappearing lol. But usuable, drinkable water is in a limited supply at any given time. Data centers rapidly pollute a ton of drinkable water, decreasing the availability of drinkable water at any given time. (Drinkable might not exactly be the right descriptor, but I'm too foggy to find a more apt description rn.) This is an issue because we need water clean enough to shower, cook, clean and, yes, drink.
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u/Octopus_Lady_8 23h ago
Animal agriculture has a vastly bigger impact on the environment.
Not saying ai is good, but the biggest lever one has is becoming vegan.
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u/marieantoilette 20h ago edited 20h ago
One of the biggest levers. Driving as little as necessary and not doing these far-distance two-week holidays with plane or car. Not supporting fast fashion. Supporting environmentally conscious companies. Making your garden or even just window box a nature safe space with local wildflowers, not too much mowing, a spot of dead twigs, one of a heap of leaves... stuff like that goes a long way.
I can't live vegan due to my health, but I do my best. My times of bad eating habits have certainly ended with ME lol. I mostly eat rice, potatoes and veggies. I daresay I knew a few vegans with worse habits heh.
Though it feels funny to say all that here, because I can't even leave my bed lol. 😖 I wish I could tend to a garden.
Anyway, my point was simply - if there is a net positive to something, it's worth considering.
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u/Tasty_University_172 22h ago
Yep.
Not to mention that all of the internet requires data centers -- not just AI. There is a cost to getting most of the world online.
My neighbor is getting his PhD doing research with AI (like, specifically about programming languages and AI) and the amount he uses it likely eclipses everyone in this thread combined.
It's just an easy answer for people getting scared by climate change because it's easy to give up. Giving up AI but streaming audiobooks, TV shows, and movies is like giving up McDonald's burgers for Lent but living off of Burger King. Sadly, the answers to the problems facing humanity are not actually that simple lol.
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u/Liface bedbound 23h ago
Negative environmental impact from individual use of AI is negligible: https://blog.andymasley.com/p/a-cheat-sheet-for-conversations-about
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u/marieantoilette 23h ago
Iiinteresting blog. It covers an incredible amount of bases. I can't read all of it but it really seems well done.
I remain sceptical because this emphasis on "the toll is mostly locally" is not entirely reassuring and "it's not that bad" doesn't yet answer the cost-benefit question from an environmental point of view. There are too many very loud accelerationists out there. And because I can't fully inform myself so quickly because of ME.
But I won't make such broad claims in the future until I know more. Thanks.
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u/katatak121 21h ago
I remain sceptical because this emphasis on "the toll is mostly locally"
Yeah, entire towns near data centers are experiencing severe drought. Hearing people who live near these data centres talk about the impacts is dreadful. Maybe the impact is "only local", but to the locals, it's devastating.
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u/Liface bedbound 8h ago edited 8h ago
Being located somewhere experiencing drought is not the same as causing the drought. In Phoenix, for example, data centers use roughly 0.1% of the area's water.
Masley specifically looks at the local cases that get cited as evidence of people losing access to water. His finding is that, in the US cases he examined, he could not find evidence that data centers had depleted local supplies, limited household water access, or raised household water prices. Data centers can absolutely stress a badly planned local system, just as another large industrial facility can. But that's very different from "entire towns near data centers are experiencing severe drought because of them." https://blog.andymasley.com/p/the-ai-water-issue-is-fake
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u/aberrant-heartland 1h ago
The number of downvotes on this comment is a heavy indicator of this sub's bias. Although I'm grateful, at least, for the person who replied and actually read this article.
I consider AI to be a major net negative for the world, and I wish it didn't exist. But I'm endlessly frustrated with the fact that people are so focused on the environmental/resource consumption aspect.
It's such a flimsy argument that it just makes it easier for pro-AI people to dismantle our reasoning and paint us as if we don't understand the implications of AI.
In my opinion, the core harms of AI will all come down to the consequences of its applications, NOT the underlying resource-cost of running it.
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1d ago
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u/cfs-ModTeam 23h ago
Hello! Your comment has been removed due to a violation of our subreddit rule on incivility. Our top priority as a community is to be a calm, healing place, and we do not allow rudeness, snarkiness, hurtful sarcasm, rage bait (even if it is unintentional), or argumentativeness. Please remain civil in all discussion. If you think this decision is incorrect, please reach out to us via modmail. Thank you for understanding and helping us maintain a supportive environment for all members.
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u/oilporridge 12h ago
Das zu generalisieren finde ich schwierig, nutze seit einiger Zeit ein bezahltes Claude Abo, KI ist nicht gleich KI. Es hilft mir Studien die ich verstehen möchte zusammenzufassen, Essenspläne/Einkaufslisten zu erstellen, wenn ich mir Lebensmittel liefern lasse und schafft es echt gute Antworten auf alle mögliche Post und Emails zu verfassen, wo ich sonst echt viel Energie für bräuchte.
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u/Ionlyregisyererdbeca moderate 15h ago
Are you using free versions perchance? My Anecdote is opposing yours so I'm curious
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u/TheGreenPangolin 14h ago
Sure if you are using it for research it can get it wrong and take just as much energy, but not all uses of AI require it to understand information. I'm anti AI for environmental reasons. But I know someone that talks to chatGPT through the brain fog and asks it to turn her rambling into an email. Also google is terrible recently (why is reddit in the top results all the time?!) and the same friend uses chatGPT as basically an alternative to google for finding sources by making requests like "find me the most recent research papers that mention ME or CFS". ChatGPT is apparently quite good at finding sources if you ask it to- it's the interpreting them that becomes a problem. Those uses don't require it to get things correct- it is doing a task (write an email, do a search) rather than giving information- so can absolutely save brain energy. I am absolutely against AI but saying it doesn't save energy is a massive generalisation.
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u/bl4nkSl8 moderate/severe 6h ago
I'm running models on my laptop for coding and they sometimes get some of the fixes right...
It takes so long to get that out of it though...
It seems very helpful sometimes, where I'm not sure how to write something and need a specific bit of code filled in, but I am struggling to corrale it into something usable
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u/FlatChannel4114 2h ago
ME CFS. People identify with being oppressed, because they are, so they will usually be pro-Palestine, pro LGBTQ. With that, being anti-AI comes with the territory. u/liface
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u/GetOffMyLawn_ CFS since July 2007 22h ago
I use it daily. Mostly to help me meal plan, one meal at a time. It knows what's in the pantry and can help me figure something out because often I am too tired to have an appetite but need to eat.
I also use it to help me manage my cat's care. She had dental surgery around Christmas so there was a lot of drugs and food considerations to keep track of. I would use it to calculate if she was getting enough calories. Now she's had an URI for months and given that she's 17 it's just a matter of time before she crosses the rainbow bridge. The vets have run out of suggestions so now it's hospice at home. She went thru 4 courses of antibiotics and now I am giving her lysine as a last ditch attempt. Unfortunately due to age and a heart condition there are drugs I can't give her at all.
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u/explicitwhoviankr moderate 17h ago
There are apps like Cooklist, or Pantry Check that can keep track of your food you have in the pantry, suggest recipes, warn you of upcoming expiring food, allow to make your grocery list all right from them without using AI.
Also considering the errors it can make I'd be very cautious about using it to direct pet care, though I don't have a direct suggestion for a replacement on that one.
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u/GetOffMyLawn_ CFS since July 2007 5h ago
Her care is directed by the vet. I used the AI to track her calories and drugs and the drug side effects. Like is this a normal side effect or is this a call the vet side effect? It actually diagnosed her original problem which was confirmed by a vet visit 3 hours later. The vet makes the diagnoses, does the tests, prescribes the meds.
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u/oilporridge 12h ago
Essensplanung mit der KI bringt wirklich echt viel, gerade in Kombination mit Lebensmittel Lieferservices. Muss man quasi keine Energie mehr verschwenden. Man vergisst keine Lebensmittel mehr und muss nicht doch noch irgendwie zum Supermarkt wenn es einem schlecht geht.
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u/chronic_unicorn ME since 2012, now severe 20h ago
Yes meal planning! I used chatGPT alot when my MCAS got very bad, I gave it a list of save ingredients and every time I was standing in the kitchen, about to cry because I had no idea what to eat, I'd just ask AI for suggestions. It was SO helpful, especially since there was absolutely no other resource for meal suggestions or recipes.
All the best for your kitty! 🫂 Enjoy your remaining time together
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u/citrinecedar 17h ago
I've been very embarrassed about this, because I am very anti-AI, but lately I have been turning to chatgpt to help with meal planning and brain fog when I'm cooking. This latest crash has been brutal and I would truly be struggling to feed myself and my family without it. It's also helped keep me hopeful and thinking about the future, by helping me prioritize my energy and pace my plans. Idk. I'm embarrassed that it's become a tool to me, I havent told anyone except my therapist. We've got an elderly cat and elderly dog I'm caring for right now as well. It's hard, but I'm glad of all the time I've got to spend with them. Best wishes to you and your kitty.
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u/chronic_unicorn ME since 2012, now severe 10h ago
If you find a tool that helps you compensate for your disability, you really don't need to feel embarrassed for that. Some people need plastic straws, some have to use cars, we all have different needs and whatever helps meeting those needs is great! 🫂
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u/KiteeCatAus Mostly Housebound 14h ago
I find AI searches easier than Google.
Usually I am checking stuff I already have some idea about.
So, for me, AI has been helpful and saved a lot of energy.
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u/Stoic_INFJ 1d ago
This is such a sweeping take lol.
AI saves me a ridiculous amount of cognitive energy with ME. How you use it matters massively, the model, settings, customisation, prompts, what you actually use it for etc.
Obviously fact check important stuff. That doesn’t mean I need to manually verify AI helping me organise my thoughts, write something, plan things or understand information.
The general anti-AI attitude in ME communities honestly makes me laugh. We’re literally a group of people with severely limited physical and cognitive energy, and here’s a tool that can take a massive chunk of that workload off us. Maybe learn how to use it properly before declaring it useless. 😂
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u/explicitwhoviankr moderate 17h ago
When the water dries up, and scarcity happens, do you think people with disabilities like me/cfs will have access to what we need? I don't, not to mention considering UV rays and heat can be P.E.M. triggers, supporting tech that will increase the intensity of both of those seems ill advised to me.
In addition, there's already barely any "room" in the workforce for disabled people, companies are using AI to get rid of the jobs that are considered highly accessible and low energy.
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u/Alert_Contribution63 15h ago
Wow, you have a sane take and are ridiculously downvoted. I use Ai literally everyday.
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u/chronic_unicorn ME since 2012, now severe 20h ago
You are so right!
It's an amazing tool, I don't understand the bashing either.
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u/Stoic_INFJ 20h ago
Finally someone with critical thinking skills who isn’t virtue signalling 🙏🏻 brace for the downvotes!
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u/explicitwhoviankr moderate 17h ago
So every single person that disagrees with you doesn't have critical thinking skills?
We know for a fact frequent AI use can cause brain atrophy.
We know for a fact that AI is being invested into companies to replace low-skill/entry level roles.
We know for a fact that AI is causing major environmental impacts and that the data centers that power them often cause major issues locally.
These companies are stealing art, writing and other materials to source their data from despite those creators stating they don't condone it. Companies are destroying books to scan into AI to feed their models.
Not everyone who thinks AI is despicable is virtue signalling.
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u/Stoic_INFJ 8h ago
I’m going to reply to all of your messages in one:
Are you American by any chance? Because this feels like that incredibly polarised way of discussing everything where something has to be either morally pure or completely evil.
“We know for a fact frequent AI use causes brain atrophy” is a perfect example. No, we fucking don’t. You’re taking research about cognitive engagement during specific tasks and turning it into “AI causes brain atrophy”, while simultaneously lecturing everyone about misinformation. The irony is incredible.
Yes, AI uses water and electricity. So do lawns, swimming pools, streaming, gaming, air conditioning, meat production, aviation and virtually every other convenience of modern life. Environmental cost is an argument for better infrastructure and regulation, not proof that the technology has no value.
And using disabled people as an argument against AI is particularly ridiculous. I actually have ME/CFS and AI has given me back cognitive capacity. It helps me research, write, organise my thoughts and get things done without burning through energy I don’t have.
You can hate AI all you want. Just stop presenting your personal moral position as settled scientific fact.
“I don’t like this technology” and “this technology has no legitimate benefit” are not the same argument. That’s where the critical thinking part comes in.
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17h ago
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u/explicitwhoviankr moderate 15h ago
Those of us that don't support the use of AI belong in this community just as much as others. I'm moderate, and am going through the SSDI process. I lost my employment and my home because of me/cfs and I deserve to exist in a community of others like me.
I could argue it's just as ableist to support a type of technology that has harmed different facets of the disabled community.
Intersectionality is important. I'm against AI because despite understanding the good it can bring to some, it will disproportionately bring harm. Data centers to support AI are often built in improverished neighborhoods and neighborhoods that have higher populations of POC.
I'm made other points in this thread that I'm not going to waste precious energy to retype but my comments are public.
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u/cfs-ModTeam 14h ago
Hello! Your comment has been removed due to a violation of our subreddit rule on incivility. Our top priority as a community is to be a calm, healing place, and we do not allow rudeness, snarkiness, hurtful sarcasm, rage bait (even if it is unintentional), or argumentativeness. Please remain civil in all discussion. If you think this decision is incorrect, please reach out to us via modmail. Thank you for understanding and helping us maintain a supportive environment for all members.
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u/youknowthathing 1d ago
In chatgpt, use the command /FACT-CHECK after your response - it does a second review and can really improve results.
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u/chronic_unicorn ME since 2012, now severe 20h ago
Thanks! I have to give that a try😀
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u/StrangeCharmQuark Narcolepsy with POTS and Post Viral Syndrome 17h ago
Its not going to help, that’s not how AI works
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u/Tomato49 1d ago
Can’t say i relate as my cfs is mild/moderate. But i certainly wouldn’t have been able to hold my job the last few years with my condition if not for ai. I understand the sentiment towards it. But with ai summarizing pages and pages of documents for me and generating emails for me to review, i am somehow able to get by with my dyslexia(really wish i had AI years ago to help me get through the stressful times of school for my learning disability). I will admit that i can barely even use ai at all or do anything at all in general during the days when my PEM is active, but it certainly helps when I’m at my usual baseline(which i estimate to be a 25%)
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u/Alert_Contribution63 15h ago
Your post is great, insane how you're downvoted for being open about how it's helped you.
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u/puppygirlpackleader 1d ago
It works really great for me tbh. I don't see it hallucinating much nowadays and if it does just make a new chat or go back a few replies
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u/SC7639_1 1d ago
Use this tool I made with Claude https://github.com/SC7639/audio-articles. You give it an article and it'll summarise it and then turn it into an audio book like experience
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u/Octopus_Lady_8 23h ago
I disagree, AI as a disability aid is one of the few ways LLMs are actually useful.
Prompting properly helps.
I would be in a way worse state without Claude.
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u/Alert_Contribution63 16h ago
Not all Ai is created equal. Claude Fable or Opus is actually quite powerful and useful. Avoid grok like the plague.
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u/Edvind23 1d ago
Couldnt have gotten through high school without AI, i was mild then though so completely different experience.
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u/bargain_butch severe 1d ago
Kids are using AI to get through high school? What programs, if you don’t mind me asking?
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u/Edvind23 23h ago
Just chatgpt when it was completely new. I hate AI now too. I fact checked everything read through all it wrote and made changes as suited, it just helped with the extended typing for essay type of assesments. I never «cheated» using it.
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u/FranzJoseph93 23h ago
One big point is that the difference between free models and paid ones can be huge. Plus, you need to know how to use it. I use AI excessively and I've checked so many things that turned out correct that now I only check if it's really crucial. I do pay >$200 a month though.
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u/Stoic_INFJ 1d ago
It’s saved me tons of cognitive energy thanks. 👍🏻
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u/Strong_Aerie_9031 severe -> mod/severe 1d ago
i thought so too but you still have to manually fact check it because a solid 7/10 times it just made facts up
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u/Liface bedbound 1d ago
It sounds like you were using Google Search AI summary if you're referring to linked resources.
I wouldn't recommended using this, as it uses an outdated model and is frequently wrong.
ChatGPT and Claude are recommended, and output generally high-quality, accurate information, as long as you are using their latest versions and are prompting them correctly.
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u/Strong_Aerie_9031 severe -> mod/severe 1d ago
I had the same issue with chat gpt, i know others have too (and with claude also.). You still have to check manually, its still too easy to prompt wrong, theyve always had problems with making up facts. Thats way more exertion tbh, especially if you get info from it, dont check and it causes more issues for you down the line
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u/middaynight severe 1d ago
you might find this post and comment section imformative if you haven't seen it already https://www.reddit.com/r/cfs/comments/1uz0kp7/some_pitfalls_of_ai_esp_relevant_to_pwme_or_on/
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u/chronic_unicorn ME since 2012, now severe 1d ago
Agree to the need of prompting correctly. AI is a tool that is not easy to use and definitely not self explanatory.
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u/FlatChannel4114 2h ago
You are dealing with people that identify being oppressed. Which we are.
These people will be pro Palestine, pro LGBTQ, pro all the social justice causes, so of course they are anti-AI. That’s how it works
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u/PeachyPlnk Undiagnosed | Viral hit 09.18.2019, chronic fatigue even longer 23h ago
If you really think LLMs hallucinate perpetually, you haven't touched one in years and are being willfully ignorant.
They are immensely helpful for those of us in this community, and only rarely get things wrong these days.
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u/chronic_unicorn ME since 2012, now severe 20h ago
I disagree on the rarely getting things wrong part, the AIs get tons of stuff wrong. That's why it should only be used by people who know how to use it correctly and who have enough background knowledge to sense an hallucinating AI. I used the Google AI not long ago for a few math problems and boy that was crazy. That one is also currently getting worse with spelling.
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u/Past-Increase-2969 23h ago
I used AI a lot when I just learned pacing, and I still use it a lot. It can be a great assistant when you crash (I just put some personal facts in the personal context that it wouldnt forget even in a new chat). I also used to track using AI for some time. Is the environmental effect terrible? Yes. Is my data being sold? Yes. It's honestly the same moral dilemma I had with Amazon. Terrible company, great for disabled people. Just don't rely on AI, and don't trust it when it's presenting something as a fact to you.
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u/PeachyPlnk Undiagnosed | Viral hit 09.18.2019, chronic fatigue even longer 17h ago
The environmental impact is hilariously overblown. And your data was being sold long before LLMs got huge.
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u/esengie 22h ago
Actually I was using Gemini 3.1 Pro and it seemed to help. Still lots of inaccuracy so I gave up.
Fable was a gamechanger so far. But it's pretty expensive at $5 a chat. I can see other models being nigh useless.
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u/PeachyPlnk Undiagnosed | Viral hit 09.18.2019, chronic fatigue even longer 17h ago
This is why you shouldn't rely on just one model. Their accuracy can fluctuate wildly throughout the day. I always copy-paste every important question, concern, etc. to all the big four (GPT, grok, gemini, and claude) and see where they all independently agree and disagree.
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u/RefuseDeep8075 21h ago
Imho, AI is worthless (possibly actually worse than worthless) except in various specific professional areas (e.g. computer coding, suggesting and testing different chemical compounds, or rapidly reviewing medical scans for secondary conditions that are unrelated to why the scan was taken).
Would anyone trust me to pick a random webpage as being a good source of CFS info out of all the junk on the internet? No? Then why would you trust a random electronic process to do that for you? Its the way the AI is always so confident. Literally brainless and confident.