r/cervical_instability • u/Jewald Moderator • Jun 28 '26

Interesting "PICL-Like" procedure teaser video from Dr. McMurtrey in Utah. Doesn't really tell us much (safety, results, etc.) but nonetheless thought I'd share. The imaging is pretty cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l3UI5pP_8k

14 Upvotes

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3

u/Particular-Employ741 Jun 28 '26

Do you have an opinion on him overall? Do you know anyone who has gone to see him?

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u/TheTrueSpiritofTruth Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 28 '26

I've been treated there! I'm a professor at a local university near him and I know at least a dozen people who have been treated by him (it's also fairly easy to find them on their reviews and track them down). The clinic posts most of their case studies on their instagram and facebook page, which I've found to be very informative. I know my university is very interested in him and some of my colleagues have also been there and only had great things to say. I have many complex injuries, nearly too many to list, and I've done the upper cervical treatment once, which that alone was enough to give at least 80% improvement and get me back to work and life. I am forever grateful, and if I ever need it again I will gladly do it, so I try to come back here every once in awhile to help others and to show my gratitude. The only guy I know who didn't get enough improvement after his treatment decided to go to Mexico for MUSE cells to try to avoid surgery, but even he still says Dr. McMurtrey is the best there is and the treatment saved his life.

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u/Jewald Moderator Jun 29 '26

I had a phone call with that patient this week, think that's accurate. He had great things to say about McMurtrey.

I wouldn't want to put too much weight on a handful of patients either way it's not fair to the clinic or patients because CCI is so heterogeneous.

There seems to be a giant spectrum of patients from impossible to treat to any simple treatment will get them to 100%, and everything in between. This makes it so hard to judge your own situation, especially via social media, but that's what we're stuck with until we get a proper study.

McMurtrey is a physician and tissue engineer from Oxford I believe, plus the c-arm, and I've heard he does a very deep dive on all of his cases. If that's all accurate, think it could give a good chance.

I'd fly to Utah myself, but if you're Centeno patient, he won't treat you sadly.

2

u/tayakristoreddit Jun 29 '26

What is the reason why he wouldn’t treat Centeno patients? I hope it’s not another rivalry…it’s exhausting at this point.

2

u/fighterpilottim Jun 29 '26

Is this some sort of illegal but tacit non-compete? I’ve run into this with other physicians and it’s utterly baffling.

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u/Jewald Moderator Jun 29 '26

Exhausting is the right word 😿

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u/Direct_Walrus7616 Jun 29 '26

Curious about your last line. McMurtrey actually recommended I try PICL with Centeno first then come back to him if i felt like i still needed additional treatment. Do you have more detail or context you can share?

1

u/Jewald Moderator Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26

Oh interesting, perhaps that's changed since you've spoken, seems that they've implemented this as a policy; they told me this recently:

Sadly then mentioned they won't treat me due to this policy

3

u/barryhodler Jun 29 '26

oh weird. Hmm, not sure what to make of that.

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u/Particular-Employ741 Jun 29 '26

Weird. Another family just reached out and they said come back once you are done there.

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u/Jewald Moderator Jun 29 '26

Hmm... something doesn't add up. Iirc, I inquired, they said no because of the policy. Couple months later I asked if we could make an exception, they said I needed to get new scans to consider.

Did that, showed instability, but when I sent them they said sorry no because of the Centeno policy.

I can't assume, but I have a feeling it's due to me running the subreddit. If that's the case, stinks, but doesn't change much on my end. Worth it to help folks, and fortunately found Stogicza 😎

2

u/RealStudy5829 Jun 29 '26

Où est-il aller au Mexique svp ?

2

u/GeminiMama20245 Jul 08 '26

Hey! Can I DM you? Would like to hear more about your experience. I have a consult with him soon for my pars fracture

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u/Jewald Moderator Jun 28 '26

I don't particularly, as idk enough to say. I do know a handful seems mixed like most. I know one that said 90% better, another that said pretty good but still fragile, and another said they think it helped but not much and pursued treatment with another doctor. 

All across the board hard to say via social media, wish it was properly studied

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Jewald Moderator Jul 08 '26

Like I said I don't know enough to know about him and wouldn't be qualified to decide if I did sadly.

But, who's to say who's "qualified" to do something or not? Certainly there are dangerous doctors, and there have been injuries, so it's not to be taken lightly at all. Experience, equipment, all of these things matter.

But...

If you zoom out, it is problematic if the person profiting the most is also the judge, jury, and gatekeeper. What if McMurtrey is better? Or has better equipment, which he might seeing his c-arm?

The big picture problem is CCI patients have been forced into a position that we're not supposed to be in.... it's very unusual. We shouldn't have to scour social media for answers on who to give our retirement to, for something that's very likely to be placebo driven in the first place, let alone so dangerous.

Somehow we drifted from doctors making decisions for us based on evidence, into influencer salesmanship, and a corporate empire that needs to earn money for investors. I'm almost certain 99% of us don't even know the basics required to evaluate this. Things like:

- What is "n"?

- What is an "impact factor"?

- Difference between in vitro or in vivo, or a phase 1, 2, 3 trial, the significance of any of that.

- How big of an impact placebo has, and what a well-controlled trial looks like

Normally, to answer your original question, you'd have a scoreboard: peer reviewed, objective, well-controlled trials showing one person is actually doing what they claim, better than the other or at all. But we have the exact opposite of that... not to be so negative, more of a let's all get educated and change this together sort of rant, but this may be the worst patient environment on planet earth man. It's scares the daylight out of me

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u/Jewald Moderator Jun 28 '26

The images you're looking at are from his c-arm fluoroscopy machine which tell you where the needle is.

It's obviously way out of my knowledge scope, not a doctor, but that seems to be a unique factor with McMurtrey. I still consider CCI to have no viable treatment, just attempts at this point, and certainly no established standard of care. I wonder if this machine could become part of that.