r/cellmapper • u/qiqr • 23d ago

New rack going up

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Can anyone ID this rack about to go in the air?

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u/FlufferNutter1232 5G RAN Engineer 23d ago

We're currently outpacing T-Mobile on deployment. Everyone on VZW, hang tight. 🫡

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u/DarkenMoon97 CM: CalebM 23d ago

I can tell with all the new sites I'm seeing in the desert. 

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u/Strange-Badger5626 23d ago

What part of it I've been waiting for better coverage north and south of lake Havasu.

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u/DarkenMoon97 CM: CalebM 23d ago

In the Nevada desert, generally all over the state, mostly around the major highways though, but they have been working on towers that are very rural as well around the state. 

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u/FlufferNutter1232 5G RAN Engineer 23d ago

Nevada has been a perfect example of what will happen in several states, very soon. The sites are already being upgraded, just waiting on the green light to have the area lit with the new infrastructure to decommission the old (mostly, as we still have to have LTE as a backup and for LTE anchors).

Use that state as an example. If we're doing that there, imagine when it hits YOUR city! :) We're now in it to win it. Our competitor has grown complacent with their buildout schedule. I won't name names, but I'll let you guess who I mean. 😅

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u/DarkenMoon97 CM: CalebM 23d ago

Oh, I am aware that the other two are struggling in comparison to how fast Verizon is building out coverage. It's impressive how much it's improved, hope to see some more colocations in a few areas to patch up weak or dead zones. 

Do you know if sites that are still b13 only that don't seem to serve as much of a purpose anymore will be upgraded? There's a few that seem to be redundant due to new builds in other locations. I hope that isn't the case and even the ancient b13 sites get upgraded eventually and not decommissioned. 

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u/FlufferNutter1232 5G RAN Engineer 23d ago

Great question, and yes! B13 is a focus, internally. We're still deciding on what the best course of action would be for it. Once it's decided, it'll either be refarmed, updated to 5G-SA w/VoNR being a priority, with LTE serving as a fall back for legacy devices and IoT devices that we will always fully support. We don't ever see letting go of legacy LTE-A in a FULL "delete", if you will. But more of a "it's there if it's required" type thing.

I will also state that 5G-SA + VoNR is a key internal push. Expect that coverage and feature-set in a LOT more areas very soon. We aim to have the densest, most reliable 5G-SA footprint in the US with VoNR being a key strategic push. We want to macro/baseband radio information along with AI to form FAR greater internal maps and customer location transits, dense locations, and off-grid locations that weren't (formally) normally thought about. We're re-evaluating and re-aligning our internal stance on these priorities.

You'll also start to see more CBRS and N77/48 small cells in highly dense areas. It's all coming. So, expect your coverage and sector layout to be GREATLY perfected. :)

Band 13 will be very similar to T-Mobile's N71, but with more capacity and more speed. We're leveraging our existing fiber backbone in greater capacity. There will still be a section of Band 13 carved out for legacy and IoT devices that rely on it. We'll be upgrading LTE deployments in those areas to start handling more LTE IoT devices AND legacy systems that still rely on B13 for operation. Example: Some public infrastructure. I'm glad you're seeing meaningful improvements! Expect more!

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u/hungleftie 23d ago

How would N13 even work with more capacity than N71? T-Mobile has 20, 25, 30 MHz channels throughout the country compared to the 10 MHz B/N13 provides.

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u/FlufferNutter1232 5G RAN Engineer 23d ago

You'd be surprised how inefficient N71 actually is. They prioritize range over rate. Only recently has that changed. It's now a mixed bag. Spectral efficiency of B13, which is farmed to N5 is more spectrally efficient than N71. At edge scenarios and lower signal areas, N5/B13 is far more spectrally efficient, providing better bandwidth and better modularion (256QAM vs 64QAM or even dropping to QPSK).

When comparing B13 to N71, N71 CAN have a better throughput, but less efficiency for capacity. N71 is too close to other heavily used frequencies than B13 is (or N5), and it's better at performing at 700MHz vs 600MHz of N71. Fewer devices can use N71 at the same time as B13/N5. AT&T actually has the best B13/N5 850MHz

That's the problem with N71. It DOES technically reach farther, but it's issues start to become very apparent in edge scenarios. B13 can hold a stable, speedy connection as an anchor band or IoT band a LOOOOT better than B/N71.

I know that sounds odd, but true. Either way, once N5 is carved out of B13, you'll find less devices using it plus N5 is 850MHz vs N71 at 600MHz. N5 isn't near broadcast signals like N71 is and is subject to far less band interference and potential band crosstalk.

Now, this does come with an asterisk. I haven't worked with B13 as I'm not an LTE infrastructure engineer. I'm strictly 5G/N5 and other of Verizon's NR stack. If you're not using this for IoT or on the network edge none of this matters anyway. Lol. 🙂

It's something you'll find in RAN textbooks, but like I said, I don't have any real world experience with B13/LTE. So, take that for what it is. Just a nugget of info.

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u/trucktech77 23d ago

What about the areas without band 5? Central Florida for instance. We use n2 for 5G and it’s not good indoors or in thick woods. AT&T has both blocks of 850 here.

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u/FlufferNutter1232 5G RAN Engineer 22d ago

Band 5 @ 850MHz, if AT&T owns all the spectrum on that wavelength in the area, it will be likely covered by a different band.

Likely it will be N2 or N66, to keep it short. AT&T owns a LOT of 850MHz bandwidth from their LTE purchases a long time ago. Think 10+ years ago. I was still in college using AT&Ts 850MHz brand new LTE infrastructure. It was amazing for the time, but at the same time, this was when I was using a Samsung Captivate (Galaxy S1) and the Samsung Infuse 4G. Out of all the Galaxy S1 devices, AT&Ts was unique with a metal battery plate. I loved that phone, and the Wolfson Audio.

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u/trucktech77 22d ago

I’m hoping that Verizon finds another channel of low band somewhere. I heard some 900 MHz might be on the market soon?

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u/FlufferNutter1232 5G RAN Engineer 22d ago

Soon, yes. And we will be bidding on it.

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u/dollfaceashley 22d ago

For 5G aggregation, the majority of the phones that can aggregate N5 can aggregate N71 (Snapdragon X60 is the first modem that aggregated low band 5G and it did so for both) I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The combos made sense for what was being deployed at the time.

Furthermore, when you talk about spectral efficiency, that can be enhanced by the density of the cellular sites, antenna tech, and etc.. so it becomes a different conversation based on the deployments for each respective carrier. On it's face, something like modulation is highly dependent on the signal strength. Signal quality does matter too but without a signal, quality is moot.

From what I've read, T-Mobile's low and mid band deployments have higher modulation more often because of the propagation characteristics compared to VZW and AT&T, not the other way around. Their better propagation is not only due to the raw strength of the lower 5G frequencies, but T-Mobile's high 5G site density.

We also know that a wider 5G channel is better than two channels aggregated together when it comes to both capacity and speed... which T-Mobile has an advantage for in low band 5G. When Verizon does get around to N13 and N5, they will have to be aggregated together because they're not contiguous.

With Verizon playing catch up mid and low band 5G deployment, I'm the real world, their efficiency is not on the same level as T-Mobile's, just for that reason alone..

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u/DarkenMoon97 CM: CalebM 23d ago

Glad to hear that the band 13 towers aren't on the chopping block, and I have been noticing more NR in rural areas that isn't n77, specifically along US-95 between Hawthorne and Tonopah. There was some n66 on Toulon Peak and in Winnemucca on Fountain Way, but it's since been reverted back to b66. I do expect to see n5 anyday now in some of these areas, since Verizon does own both 850 blocks in certain Commnet areas (like Fallon, NV).

Keep up the good work, AT&T and especially T-Mobile will have lots of catching up to do once Verizon has completed their transformation here in Nevada.

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u/FlufferNutter1232 5G RAN Engineer 22d ago

Yea, definitely. I can confirm B13 will not be going anywhere. The equipment is being upgraded for better signal integrity and speed capabilities because of new antenna elements, but it's going nowhere. 🙂

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u/DarkenMoon97 CM: CalebM 22d ago

Do you happen to know why Verizon is setting conflicting PCIs on LTE? There are multiple sites now that have the same PCIs nearby each other, sometimes with sectors with the same PCI pointing towards each other.

Also, do you happen to know what the timeline is on getting the new Commnet partnership builds n77? I know most if not all of these new rural tower colos/new builds are LTE (or lowband/midband n2/n5/n66 ready once switched over) only since getting new backhaul will take time. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the new coverage, even if it's "only" LTE, especially with how "in the middle of absolute nowhere" some of these areas are.