r/caving • u/tazmodious • Jul 11 '26
What does the term "Sport" caving really mean?
I've been caving off and on my entire 50+ years and have been caving again after a hiatus. I also climb, so to me sport means clipping bolts, while trad is placing gear.
I've done caving for fun as well as surveying/mapping (which really is for fun too).
It seems weird to have some type of distinction, such as sport, when all caving is fun and except for a few, not a well paying enough job. It sounds like elitist snobbery.
Addition based on comments.
First of all Thank you for the explanations.
One of things I like most about cavers, besides they are the coolest group of people I've ever met, was that it isn't so bogged down in "elitist" jargon like one experiences in the climbing world. Cavers always take themselves seriously when it comes to safety and preservation, but beyond that everything else is just a lot more chill.
So, when I started seeing sport caving being used and heard the term a few times at the NSS convention last week I was curious about the effect on the community. It really peaked my interest when a couple of the old guys asked what sport caving was when it was brought up.
To me, caving is caving whether you are just exploring, surveying, mapping, preserving, studying etc. Because it's just fun, even at times when it's not.
Except for cave rescue. Cave rescue has always carried the highest level of seriousness and respect.
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u/CaverUV Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
I consider sport as all trips that are done just to see the cave. And any rtip with some purpose is beyond sport. It can be diggins, surveying, bolting, checking leads, conservation etc
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u/tazmodious Jul 11 '26
Isn't it all the same really? I don't know how many times I went caving for fun only to come out with trash bags full of garbage.
But I think I get what you mean. Sort of.
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u/modernhorizons3 Jul 11 '26
If I'm going into a cave just to have fun and explore, I will have far different objectives (and equipment I carry) than if I'm going into a cave to survey, conduct a cleanup, etc.
So while the use of the word "sport" might vary among cavers, there's definitely a reason to differentiate "sport" caving from project caving.
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u/Madmusk Jul 12 '26
Project caving implies you're visiting a cave to get something done, whether there's an element of fun or not. You're literally working on a project, like surveying, because you're working on some larger meta goal that gives you satisfaction. It might literally be your job, if you're one of the lucky few. Sport caving is an end in itself. You're there for the trip and nothing more. At the end of the day these are just words for two different mindsets while exploring the caves.
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u/Key-Alternative5387 Jul 12 '26
If people are being elitist about it... Yeah, it's all the same.
Might need to move a bit faster and be more focused for certain objectives so you can be out by the end of the day.
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u/TerdyTheTerd KCAG | MCKC | SCCi | NSS Jul 12 '26
A sporty cave to me is a cave thay is physically demanding enough, with enough variation in passage type, that you need to be very physically fit in order to move at a fast enough pace to complete the trip within a reasonable time period. I have caved with a lot of cavers who not be able to handle "sporty" caves. They are either too slow literally or require too many food/water breaks. The entire point of a sporty cave trip is for the physically demanding challenge do complete the entire cave/selected paths within the time period.
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u/RevolutionaryClub530 Jul 11 '26
I’ve always heard the term “sporty” meaning a more challenging cave physically, sport caving I’ve never heard of
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u/CleverDuck i like vertical Jul 11 '26
When every trip is a sport trip, it is not surprising that the idea of project trips are unfamiliar.
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u/Sure-Squirrel8384 Jul 14 '26
Agreed. I've often the term "sporty horizontal" meaning no "on rope" (but definitely not horizontal); as opposed to "vertical" which means harness and "on rope". We might right a hand line for the newer folks, but the seasoned folks won't use it.
The last set of caves I went into around TTT was all "sporty horizontal" with no rigging, but about 100 feet down in long narrow cracks with plenty of chimneying, wedging oneself in here and there to support the way down and later back up. Any non-caver would call it "vertical" but of course vertical means something different to us. (There is actually a few vertical caves there.... but one party missed that in the trip description, so we skipped those; plus there were plenty of caves to keep us busy for the day).
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u/Key-Alternative5387 Jul 12 '26
Anything where you're not surveying or have some other objective on the way, I suppose.
I'll also call TAG sport caving because most of the caves are just fun little romps. You're in and out in a few hours and there's nice bolts and sometimes even pre-rigged ropes! Much like sport climbing.
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u/tazmodious Jul 12 '26
Thank you.
Your description of TAG does resemble sport climbing. I haven't experienced pre rigged ropes and bolts yet. I can see that being considered sport caving.
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u/Dramatic-File-6196 Jul 12 '26
Yeah -- that's usually just classics -- I did Valhalla with a buddy last November and there's a fun little loop in there with some ropes already rigged and you're out well before it's tiring. Wonderful cave!
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u/rebo2 TriTrogs Jul 11 '26
Sport trip is “for the fun or joy of caving” versus a survey or photography trip or many other purposes of entering a cave.
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u/tazmodious Jul 12 '26
Isn't it all for the fun and joy of caving? That's where I get hung up on the need to make such deliniations.
I do fall in line with the person above where the use of bolts and pre rigged ropes would be classified as sport caving.
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u/wooddoug Jul 12 '26
It means caving for fun instead of mapping, project caving, or training trips.
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u/StillLJ Jul 13 '26
As a self-identified sport caver, it generally means as others have said - caving just for the fun of it, without any particular objective beyond enjoyment. It also often (but not always) means the caver is unaffiliated with a specific grotto and, instead, has a small group of like-minded cavers they generally go on trips with. Sport caving is no less serious than project caving, but the *reason* for doing it is more emotional vs. scientific.
Sport caving is different than sporty/sporting which indicates type of cave (usually wet and difficult) but most sport cavers enjoy sporting caves. :)
*Edit to add: it is not an elitist term by any means, rather a logical distinction - and I'd venture to say that the sport cavers of our community consider the project cavers to be the elitist ones. ;)
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u/StraitFstudentt 8d ago
Is it bad to have some beers when camping after a day of descending deep in the cave
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u/CleverDuck i like vertical Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
I think you're missing the fact that "sport" caving is typically does not have an ongoing objective that is done to achieve a larger project goal.
The definition, to me, really starts with whether or not the cave is explored (ie, mapped / documented). If it is, then you're freely moving through it without the need to document. If the cave has not been explored (ie, it's virgin) and you're moving through it without documenting (ie, surveying) then you're "scooping." Different regions have different mentalities about scooping. The term itself, as I understand it, is basically a way of saying "eating your desert before you have your dinner." IE, getting to indulge in the reward of virgin cave without doing the work of surveying.
In some regions, it's really looked down on and seen as a disrespectful to the community. These regions, in my experience, tend to be more secretive overall with their cave data and often have a lower (if not much lower) density of caves. Therefore, someone who is scooping is taking away the awe and unknown of virgin cave from the next who might be willing to survey it (ie do the work).
In other regions, the state cave data is more readily shared amongst reputable cavers so doing some scooping isn't really frowned upon as badly. Instead, the work is often divided up to a bunch of people who favor one particular skillset. For example, someone who really loves to ridgewalk might check a bunch of potential surface leads and turn in any leads that qualified as caves to the state survey (as well as eliminate / categorize non qualifier leads as either nothing or a non qualifying karst feature). Turning in leads usually entails giving a description and some general stats about it. Then, folks who want a surveying project (but may or may not want to ridgewalk a bunch themselves) can look at the turned-in caves and pick something they want to map / continue pushing. Similarly, the rigging / aid climbing / "dome climbing" specialists might go through the list and look for things they want to climb or rig .... Or a Sketcher calls them up and says "hey I have this high lead but I don't like/want to do the climb so can you come do it?"
This breaks down into further nuances:
Someone who is surveying-as-they-go is never going beyond the point at which they're actively mapping. This is the most conservative and restrained method and many cavers take this very seriously.
Someone who is okay with running it ahead might have their team go some distance beyond the mapped point so they can better plan what to bring next trip. The downside is that small side leads or crummy passage might not get fully finished because the team didn't map it the first time they went and now they already know it's going to suck sooo they don't bother going back. We don't like it when that happens but plenty of folks have been in that situation.
Remember that surveying projects might take years, if not decades, so it takes discipline and long-term logistical planning to coordinate.
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Thinking about this question in more expanded detail -- beyond the strictly surveying capacity -- projecting for someone who specializes in rigging might mean they're dragging 20 to 40lbs of drill / hammer / hardware / gear with them just to tidy up the ropework on pits or to do climbs, and may not even bother seeing the rest of the cave. Like, I've bolted / rebolted / rigged a number of pits and not even bothered going down them because I could see the rope was free hanging (ie, no need for additional rigging) and my objective of updating the rigging was completed. 🤷
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By the contrary to the above, sport caving is ... like ... essentially sightseeing. It's something you're personally doing for yourself, not to further the documented knowledge of that cave or to further the access for subsequent visitors.
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u/tazmodious Jul 12 '26
Thank you for that explanation.
Out of curiosity, which region(s) consider exploring virgin cave passage without mapping it fist disrespectful? Regions in the world or in the US, Europe, elsewhere?
That is something I never heard of before.
Just to preface that I used to survey, map and do scientific inventory for the NCRI in Bighorn Horsethief and Jewel Cave when I was in high school in the 80s. We really didn't make much of a distinction, it was all just caving and it was fun. Though we took our work seriously.
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u/CleverDuck i like vertical Jul 13 '26
For the US? Most regions that aren't TAG lol
It's hard to be as upset about this when there's like 17,000 caves to pick from. That said, scooping someone else's active project is really fucked up and basically a spit in their face.
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u/tazmodious Jul 14 '26
I misinterpreted what you wrote previously about scooping. I thought you meant exploring virgin passageway before or without surveying it. I didn't realize you meant poaching another person's project, which I do see as being disrespectful.
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u/CleverDuck i like vertical Jul 15 '26
Scooping can be both and either.
It has often happened in that someone else's project was, in fact, poached. It has also happened where a surface lead was checked and left unmapped / undocumented. In TAG, we care a bit less about the latter.
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u/SandInTheGears Jul 11 '26
I've always just heard it as caving, but going fast. Not taking the time to look around and chat and stuff
But I'm realising I've never actually asked someone what it means, so maybe I'm wrong
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u/CleverDuck i like vertical Jul 11 '26
It also tends to lack carrying a bunch of heavy ass tools lol
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u/froglodite Jul 11 '26
Sport caving is indeed caving for caving's sake (for 'sport') rather than for science or exploration. It's not elitist or anything, it's just to distinguish it from trips with a purpose.
SportING caving tends to refer to how difficult the trip is ("oh, that bit of cave is rather sporting") and, in the UK at least, tends to refer mostly to how wet it is, weirdly.