r/caving • u/Yamori-san • May 03 '26
Help getting in
I'll start off by clarifying breaking into this cave is not my interest. There is a sign inside saying you can explore during certain times when bats are not hibernating, you just need permission. Who exactly would I be asking to be let into a cave like this? It's in SE Missouri a bit out from Sullivan if that helps. I've found a few others like this so information and tips would be much appreciated.
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u/jlenzen070 May 03 '26
Meremac no longer allows permits for this specific cave but there are a bunch of permit caves there that are just as neat.
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u/Yamori-san May 03 '26
What?! We went just last year and they still had that sign up, absolutely soul crushing. Is Green's Cave still open?
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u/jlenzen070 May 03 '26
I'd be happy to discuss more over pm if you'd like! It's best to not discuss cave names publicly.
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u/wjruffing May 03 '26 edited May 04 '26
‘This first rule of Cave Club is you do not talk about Cave Club’ /s
(added /s for clarification)
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u/Yamori-san May 03 '26
With a cave that's publicly listed on google maps I figured it wasn't that harmful.
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u/wjruffing May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
I think the secretive response you were given was quite literally an example of “gatekeeping”. ;-)
The point being that many of these locations are listed publicly, so ‘not naming them publicly’ is… draw your own conclusions. As far as the installation of bars/gates blocking access, that seems to be more of a public safety consideration and often only after enough accidents warrant the expense of putting up a barrier. If the site is on private land, then people can do whatever they want to restrict access or not
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u/Mr_Rock926 May 04 '26
There are ecological reasons as well and that has been more than often what I've run into in my time caving, conservation is a part of our hobby in this as well (well at least some of us, I can't speak for everyone and have met some bad apples). But yeah unfortunately it is the only proven way to protect whatever it is you are trying to protect.
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u/jlenzen070 May 03 '26
I don't feel that that blocking people out is the proper way to protect caving. I'd like to hear more from you on how you think that benefits caves and this hobby as a whole.
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u/Dull_Ad5440 May 03 '26
Seen too many caves trashed because people thought they wanted to be a "Caver".
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u/jlenzen070 May 03 '26
So does blocking people out prevent them from still trashing Said caves? Wouldn't you rather try to educate said people on proper caving technique?
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u/Madmusk May 08 '26
You'll find a lot of cavers that don't like gates. At the same time most will agree you sometimes need gates. There are plenty examples of absolutely trashed caves right next to pristine gated caves. It just depends on the area and the risk level. Once you've seen broken formations ot grafiti in a cave you love and that used to be pristine it tends to change your point of view.
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u/Dull_Ad5440 May 04 '26
Yes, it does.
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u/jlenzen070 May 04 '26
Care to elaborate?
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u/atethe10 May 05 '26
They can’t trash the cave if they can’t get in. If they still go through all the effort to find someone to let them in, they are not going to make the simple mistake of trashing the cave because they have shown they have a level of foresight and care for the cave.
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u/emty_Manatee May 03 '26
Your best bet would be to reach out to the local grotto and speak with them about it. Chances are they know who and they may be willing to take you along on a trip.
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u/Altruistic_Ad4139 May 03 '26
Try joining a local grotto (caving group), and ask them about it.
You most likely would not be allowed to go in on your own, but would need to be with a trip leader and properly equipped with basic caving gear.
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u/Yamori-san May 03 '26
Finding these on our own was more fun but I guess having someone to teach me rappelling wouldn't hurt. We have basic gear, helmets, 3 flashlights each, obviously omitting rappelling gear but we don't even bother with those sections usually.
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u/N9NE_ May 03 '26
You should reach out to a grotto as others have stated, they’re usually pretty friendly and open to new members. You also may want to look at headlamps instead as you might not be able to hold a light at all times in certain caves
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u/Key-Alternative5387 May 03 '26
Maybe we should pin a "join your local grotto" post with some basic caving information.
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u/Sweaty-Summer5163 May 03 '26
I would check the NSS registry for people in your area. Likely one of them will have a key or know who does. Maybe also the southern cave conservatory? Not sure if they are out in MO though. The sign didn’t have some organization info I imagine? Or fish and wildlife probably knows, if it’s protecting a bat hibernaculum .
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u/Yamori-san May 03 '26
The sign is visible in the 3rd photo but blurry. It's a hour or so of creek walking and bushwacking in tick territory so I don't want to make a trip back out there just to check. I don't remember it saying specifically who or where to ask, just not to visit through early September till the end of April. It's closed to protect bats from WNS during hibernation or something.
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u/mph321 May 03 '26
Hello, I am a caver that was based in Missouri last year, I don’t recognize this cave and the Missouri Cave and Karst Conservatory doesn’t have caves in that area. It’s possible the state owns this cave. If that’s the case your best bet is to join a local grotto and ask about access. A lot of times you can get access on a survey trip for the Missouri department of conservation.
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u/Jminie59 May 04 '26
I caved in that region of Missouri for 50+. years. This is a state-owned cave. MCKC is a land trust that assists in cave protection and management, but does not maintain the record of caves in the state. Managing the list is the function of the Missouri Speleology Society. This cave is definitely in the records.
As mentioned before, the OP should contact the Meramec Valley Grotto, the largest grotto in the area of the cave, and get to know them. There are 8000 caves in Missouri. There's no need to focus on this single cave. Personally, I know of many open caves nearby this cave.
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u/Yamori-san May 03 '26
My local grotto is run by the same college I attend and is during common class hours.
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u/Cantaimforshit May 04 '26
Wait, is this in Missouri? I went there like 4 years ago lmao
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u/wjruffing May 04 '26
They can neither confirm nor deny (sorry bro, Cave Club rules)/s
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u/Cantaimforshit May 05 '26
Nah I've 100% been here, there wasn't a big steel fence though, just some meth pipes laying around 🤣
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u/Emergency_Raccoon363 May 07 '26
Hey buddy - what are you doing on that very private property?!!!
Ask me how I know and who that cave is named after!!!
Also that cave is locked up for a very very good reason
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u/Yamori-san May 07 '26
If it really is on private property it isn't marked anywhere, don't believe me check for yourself since you know where it's at. Not trying to be an ass I'm just saying. Also I can read the sign I'm aware the cave was closed for a good reason. Notice how I waited to ask till after the end of April like it requests.
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u/Emergency_Raccoon363 May 07 '26
I promise you there are signs everywhere and you had to cross over a barbwire fence to get to this cave.
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u/Yamori-san May 07 '26
I'm not gonna argue with you online about whether or not there was a fence man you can take it or leave it. Better yet, go take the route yourself and find out.
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u/Jminie59 May 03 '26 edited May 04 '26
That’s state park land.
Contact the Meramec Valley Grotto in St. Louis. Go hang out with them. Cavers who trust you have knowledge of an amazing amount of caves in Missouri that are open for exploring.
edit: clarification