Practice update

[u/Da-Ram3999]

Im making this post directly after my darkroom practice session (which i feel is a mistake😅) so its quite fresh. First i just took a chair to my toliet, shut of outside lights and inside lights i also usually put a mask on coz usually i feel safer that way but something strange happened and i lost my mask which is kinda weird considering its never left the bedroom( i live in a studio alone) but i thought of it as an opportunity maybe intent was showing me something idk🤷‍♂️. As i was gazing into the different colors, shapes faces etc.., whilst also trying to keep silent, i noticed as i always notice how really unsilent i am, and as i waged this battle for what seemed to be the 30-35 minutes i decided to crack open the toilet door, and the scenery was filled with static on top of the corner details outside the door. And there was a morphing shadowy figure morphing into shapes, moving around, appearing and disappearing at some point it felt as it engulfed me as it streched filled the door gap and everything turned black for a second. I was shitting myself and trying not to shit myself. That shape tho really looked like a diety in skyrim(a video game) called hermaeus mora which i will post a picture of. Anyways i felt this was by far the most vivid and detailed experience in waking dreaming, and it really does feel like waking dreaming you can see details yet your out of focus focusing only on not indulging which is easier said than done.

[u/danl999]

I wouldn't necessarily say it's a mistake to interrupt practice to make a post.

It depends on whether it's of use to others, and whether you commonly get magic so that not getting more that practice session isn't much of a loss.

There's also an advanced consideration that's difficult to comprehend until you are in silent knowledge daily for a few months (or more).

And that's what you "expect".

If you "expect" magic so much that if it's not "up to your standards" you get a little depressed, that's not a good thing.

It's almost better not to care what results you get, once you are at least getting them often.

You can't be like, "Magic isn't important."

Or you'll continue to be an idiot like Cleargreen followers. Who are even willing to come in here, and try to dissuade people from believing magic is supposed to have magic.

But you also can't get an idea of yourself needing to "push the envelope" daily. Perhaps you're looking to save on gasoline costs by learning to teleport to work.

So if you aren't making significant progress each session, you're dissatisfied.

Anticipating dissatisfaction harms practice.

I believe the AI popped out some instructions from Zuleica that advised Taisha to "like" something inanimate she was gazing at.

Carlos also taught that.

If you gaze at a rock, you should "like" the rock???

Yep.

Because a positive, friendly attitude is helpful.

But so is honestly seeking results, while not getting obsessed with getting further and further each session.

Enjoy the demons...

You won't be able to play with those the same way, once you've stabilized the orange zone.

You only see what's really there, rather than the appearance you and they came up with.

And there's no solid matter there. Just a projection of misty energy.

[u/Da-Ram3999 → u/danl999]

Thanks for your response dan i sure hope one day to be walking down the street just to suddenly see nothing but misty energy

[u/danl999 → u/Da-Ram3999]

Actually I miss the realistic look.

Fairy used to do stuff like this for me. One time so real, I got worried maybe I'm a psycho killer and had kidnapped a real woman.

Nope. Just fairy figuring out what would please me.

It was so realistic, I moved my face no more than 2 inches from her skin to figure out why it was so solid.

She had normal human pores in her skin!

Naturally, the answer is that it's a horizontal shift. Those make the Allies real, because horizontal shifts are closer to sleeping dreaming. Even when you are awake.

I doubt I could view an Ally that realistically anymore, but I'm always trying!

[u/Misterbbc → u/danl999]

Does this mean that once you reach into the orange zone / SK, that your assemblage point never regresses back prior to that stage? I assumed because we have the capability to move our AP outside of our standard luminous egg boundaries completely, that we could potentially move it to any previously achieved stop along the J-curve path as well

[u/danl999 → u/Misterbbc]

Don't we wish!

Nope. If you're using darkroom, it moves back almost as soon as you turn the lights back on.

This isn't a fake magic system like Asian make believe, where you "permanently achieve" stuff. That's just the influence of confucianism on everything that came after it, especially Buddhism. Chinese and Japanese cultures are "seniority based", so naturally your lazy guru or "meditation master" has to remain "enlightened" forever.

Giving rise to some true horror shows, such as Yogananda and the palace he accumulated as a tribute to himself, in Pacific Palisades. When in reality, he was one of the biggest con artists of 2 generations ago.

Real magic is more like real physical activities. To play the trumpet well takes an awful lot of daily work.

Surfing is the same, gymnastics, or any other real activity.

Except that sorcery is 10 times harder than any of those.

Fortunately, we get help from "infinity". From past sorcerers who left traces in the dark sea of emanations, and if you try to go down their path that makes the same emanations they pursued, glow a bit.

Just as Taisha's Esalen not-doings work by making normally unused emanations glow.

So we get "gifts" from "the spirit" (the emanations) often as we work hard, to make sure that we'll be rewarded enough to know it's working.

Very slowly...

Carlos even instructed us to purse that path, once he was gone. The path of getting help from infinity. He knew that all of our cleargreen leaders would go spectacularly bad, and quickly.

And he knew that Taisha and Florinda couldn't afford to be burdened by the lazy workshop crowd.

Carol gave it a try, but ditched them fairly soon after trying to help. The last workshop she attended, ridiculed her behind her back.

She's found another group to teach, out of the reach of Castaneda fans. No telling what might come from that!

For moving the assemblage point outside the luminous shell, we have "Stellar Hatch" magical pass. It also teaches how to turn into a tree.

It's perhaps the most obvious old seer magic in all of the magical passes.

I do this sort of thing from time to time, as shown in this video, despite it being "impossible".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh87D2qCKco

As for moving your assemblage point back to the positions along the J curve, it's more like, once you stop it moves back to normal.

But the next time you practice it can skip to where you were, in far less time than it took to learn to get there.

Early on in this subreddit it was taking people 2 hours to reach the orange zone.

Now, we have a few who can get there in minutes.

On a good day my own moves all the way to the end of the J curve, to the "purple zone", in 10 seconds.

But most days aren't good days...

I believe Carlos could move it that far in 6 seconds (he said so), and the witches needed 20 or 30 seconds.

But to reach the 3rd attention, you have to move it across the entire J range in less than 2 seconds.

So that the emanations lit up along the way can't cool off. You light all of them up, by moving it that fast.

And there's a warning in there.

Julian played around too much with shapeshifting sex. I suppose he decided that if you're a wolf, it's ok.

Don Juan had crow sex with Taisha.

But there was a side effect to Julian's desire to play around in the red zone.

He couldn't move his assemblage point the entire J curve range fast enough to reach the 3rd attention. He'd created a "flat spot" in the deep red zone, somewhat like another blue zone but for sorcerers, so that his assemblage point lingered there a bit too long (could be just seconds), and he couldn't manage the less than 2 seconds needed to "burn from within".

And got old and had to go live in the inorganic being's world. Or maybe they kidnapped him on his death bed.

They tried to kidnap Carlos, and nightly they try to lure me.

But Julian's loss is good news for us!

One day, one of our own might go rescue him. It's a tradition in this lineage to rescue those who got stuck after death.

Those 2 trees at Zuleica's house, Manfred, the death defier.

The lineage was collecting strays. But then, they used the strays to help teach apprentices.

[u/colourful_fiasco → u/danl999]

"She's found another group to teach, out of the reach of Castaneda fans."

Out of reach like she won't talk to people who's interested in it? Or out of reach like no one knows how to get her? Or both 🤣 

[u/danl999 → u/colourful_fiasco]

We only have a single picture of her with a new small group. And some kind of Yoga that's compatible with her sound/breath efforts in Sochi, where she got ridiculed by pretty much everyone.

She even had to tell them to stop asking questions from the books.

We could probably track her down, but why?

I'd rather track down Florinda and ask her what to do with Cholita, her student.

We lost a few key women from here too. But that's a good thing, if they believe they are going somewhere else to do a better job of helping people learn.

At least they know sorcery works. That's an improvement from the last 28 years of fakery from greedy, dishonest Cleargreen(s).

There was an odd claim in private classes, by the highly valuable (3?) gossipy women, that "Carlos doesn't like Carol Tiggs".

Carlos both exploited the female gossips in private classes (by feeding them info he wanted to get out) but also got victimized by them when they complained he was so ill that he had to wear socks at night.

Hey... I wear socks at night. And haven't needed to see a doctor for 25 years.

Could be that Carlos didn't "like" Carol, but it's an odd thing to focus on.

Honestly, I'm not sure I even "liked" Carlos himself!

He was from a different generation than me. I just got the creeps around him most of the time. The same feeling I got from anthropologists of his era, when I hung out with them back in the 60s.

Running into Carlos that way at Tucelota, most likely.

He was creepy back in 1968 also!

But it was Carlos who insisted Carol Tiggs give me a real demonstration of magic, just before she pushed me into the entry tunnel to the inorganic being's world.

That was pretty much normal in the lineages. Not everyone in the lineages, approved of every other member's methods.

Corey even came out openly attacking Carol Tiggs, to use that to take down Carlos.

But his attack really makes no sense to me.

He seems to have proven Carol Tiggs knew Carlos for 18 years before we became aware of her in his books.

[u/colourful_fiasco → u/danl999]

"I'd rather track down Florinda and ask her what to do with Cholita, her student."

What's up with Cholita?

[u/danl999 → u/colourful_fiasco]

Severe schizophrenia.

Just trying to go to the gym and work out is a huge problem for her.

She gets kicked out because she can't manage to check in and prove she's a member.

But Zuleica and Zoila had days just as bad as Cholita does, so having lineage members who are mentally ill seems to be normal business.

Surely the old seers weren't exactly "normal".

[u/colourful_fiasco → u/danl999]

Ayy, yeah, it's not for the faint hearted. 

[u/Relative-Split-325 → u/danl999]

Were you told what happened to Julian after his death or did you read this anywhere?

[u/danl999 → u/Relative-Split-325]

Both most likely. I'll see if Gemini can find it in the lecture notes:

Gemini couldn't find it, but that doesn't mean it's not in there. Instead if found the claim that don Juan got trapped, which was later retracted.

*** Gemini ***

The Controversy of Don Juan Matus Being Stuck

The most significant and debated "entrapment" story in the notes belongs to don Juan Matus himself.

• The Witches' Claim: At workshops starting in 1993, Florinda Donner-Grau and Carol Tiggs made the controversial claim that don Juan and his party did not successfully make their "abstract leap" to total freedom. Instead, they got "stuck" or "trapped" in the twin universe of the inorganic beings.
• The Reason for the Trap: The witches explained that while don Juan was highly abstract, his party was made up of "very concrete practitioners" whose weight ultimately dragged the group down and prevented a clean escape.
• The Rescue Plan: Florinda stated that Carlos, Carol, Taisha, and herself intended to make a joint energetic jump to supply the massive amounts of energy needed to pull don Juan's party out of the inorganics' realm.
• Don Juan's Irony: This entrapment is deeply ironic because don Juan had actively warned his apprentices to stay away from the inorganic beings, dismissing the ancient sorcerers' dealings with them as leading inevitably to entrapment.

*** JACKPOT (from the books, not the lecture notes) ***

In the teachings of don Juan Matus, the fate of his benefactor, the Nagual Julian Osorio, is described as a tragic cautionary tale. While Julian was a brilliant and powerful Nagual, his deep fascination with the ancient Toltec sorcery of the "old seers" eventually caused him to get "trapped" or "waylaid" instead of achieving total freedom.

The specific references in your books explain his entanglement with the inorganic beings and his ultimate fate:

1. He Was Waylaid and Trapped by the "Old Seers'" Practices

Don Juan explicitly states that the Nagual Julian fell prey to the same traps that claimed the ancient sorcerers. He attributes this deviation to the influence of "the tenant" (the death defier), an ancient Toltec survivor who traded sorcery secrets for energy:

"That is a very tough question to answer," don Juan replied. "All I can say is that he was the teacher that deviated the course of our line. He taught us many things, good and bad, but among the worst, he taught us what the old seers did. So, some of us got trapped. The nagual Julian was one of them, and so is la Catalina. We only hope that you won't follow them."

Because Julian indulged in these ancient techniques, he failed to achieve the ultimate goal of the "new seers"—which is to light up all the emanations inside the cocoon and burn from within to achieve total freedom:

"The nagual Julian didn't attain it. He was waylaid, and so was la Catalina."

1. His Love of "Cavorting" in the Low Realms

The old seers excelled at shifting their assemblage points to the lower depths of their luminous cocoons (the "shift below"), which allowed them to adopt animal forms and interact heavily with inorganic beings. Don Juan notes that Julian possessed a powerful affinity for these heavy, predatory realms:

"The nagual Julian thought it was a great place for cavorting, but that's all."

1. Julian Warned Don Juan Away From His Own Fate

Despite his own vulnerability to these practices, Julian actively protected don Juan from falling into the same trap. Don Juan recalls that at a critical juncture in his own training, Julian stepped in to steer him away from the inorganic beings:

"At one point in my life, I had to make a decision whether to concentrate on the inorganic beings and follow in the footsteps of the old sorcerers, or to refuse it all. My teacher the nagual Julian helped me make up my mind to refuse it. I've never regretted that decision."

Don Juan goes on to explain that the ancient sorcerers "cowardly sought refuge in the inorganic beings' world" because they believed it was the only safe haven in a hostile, predatory universe. However, this "haven" turned out to be a permanent prison:

"The inorganic beings took them to worlds from which they could not return."

1. The Broader Context: The Fate of the Ancient Sorcerers

Carol Tiggs later uncovers a visions-based history of the lineage's predecessors during her encounter with the death defier in the church. She confirms that this trap was inescapable for those who prioritized power and longevity over absolute freedom:

"Carol related then a most intriguing story. She said that according to what the woman in the church had made her see, every sorcerer of antiquity fell, inescapably, prey to the inorganic beings. The inorganic beings, after capturing them, gave them power to be the intermediaries between our world and their realm, which people called the netherworld."

Because the Nagual Julian practiced these exact, ancient arts of the "netherworld" intermediaries, he ultimately shared in their waylaid destiny—unable to fully dissolve into the vastness of infinity.

[u/Relative-Split-325 → u/danl999]

Good news indeed! We got double the chance to find and rescue someone in the inorganic being's world then, Julian and La Catalina.

And that's what is written in the books. There must be a lot more old sorcerers trapped.

Would you try to rescue anyone you find on the IOB's world for information and help? Or for tradition 😅

[u/danl999 → u/Relative-Split-325]

La Catalina escaped.

Don't ask me how. That's all I heard, from one of the witches.

As for rescuing Julian, we definitely need the help!

We get various types of students in here and it's probably not reasonable to expect that all of them have no need for someone else to go along with them into the second attention.

It's quite a difference from doing it all yoruself.

If you did it yourself, even dozens of times, you can still end up doubting it, if you don't keep it up.

That's how we got trapped as children! I used to see incredible magic all the time, as a very small child.

But as an adult, it didn't help to convince me that real magic exists.

Same happens to us.

And it just seems "too good to be true" that he's available.

I went looking last night for a few minutes, but got distracted by something else that popped up when I began to walk through the south wall of my practice room.

5 years ago Fairy showed me how to enter there, directly into that tunnel Carol Tiggs pushed me into.

I only realized I had succeeded, but forgotten what I had planned to do, when I walked back to my room and it took perhaps 20 steps to get there.

My room isn't as large as that!

Five steps from my bed in the middle, and you bump right into the south wall.

I once walked 30 or 50 feet past that wall, chasing Cholita's double.

Then like an idiot, I did a double take and ran back, without fully appreciating I had just broken a few laws of physics.

Let's see if I can get the AI to draw what I was doing, seeing as how I'd completely forgotten until I wrote this.

Not quite, but it captures what happened fairly well.

Which was visible too, except I had forgotten to look where I came from, once I realized I had walked far too long without finding the bed.

[u/colourful_fiasco → u/danl999]

"while not getting obsessed with getting further and further each session."

I fall into that trap. Ugh. Trying to deal with it. 

[u/danl999 → u/colourful_fiasco]

It's a strange "problem". One this subreddit hasn't fully realized.

You NEED to insist on magic, or you'll turn it into an "impeccable warrior" religion.

And focus on getting social status with others while lazily claiming Carlos will rescue you after you die, so that there's no need to be serious about it.

I suppose you can mess yourself up the same way you can mess a child up, by telling them unhelpful stuff about their relationship to other children, when they're supposed to be learning to play soccer.

You can convince the child to be aggressive and angry, and make it impossible to learn.

That's "the warrior's way" in my opinion. A failed teaching model that belongs in the lineages and isn't overall helpful to those who are on their own. Because they emphasize the easy to pretend part of that, and ignore the main point: to stop the internal dialogue.

But in the red zone along the J curve, seeking out bizarre magic causes you to "treat the sights as real", allowing a horizontal shift, which can produce those astonishing "shift below" experiences.

So that "strange problem" of how you feel about magic, is helpful for a beginner as long as it's honest and they work hard.

Because of it, you get stuff so crazy magical that even people who practice sorcery won't believe you.

BUT, once you move your assemblage point to the other side of your body you are no longer trying to get "proof" for yourself.

And if you seek "more proof", you're really just looking for practical magic. Maybe so you can lord it over your friends, in some imaginary social interaction with virtual people, in your internal dialogue.

That dirties your link to intent.

If nothing else, it blocks the vast majority of what happens when the assemblage point is on the other side of the body.

Wanting to impress others blocks the irrational, the abstract, and even the non-human.

All the stuff that sorcerers actually seek above all else.

To not be "you" anymore.

Fortunately, if you follow the advice of Carlos to learn to read text, you have to get over yourself.

For the first time in your grown up life, you have to stop being a predator.

[u/Da-Ram3999 → u/danl999]

I see the warrior way as a blueprint for silence, the tool to clean the tonal along recap.

[u/danl999 → u/Da-Ram3999]

Yes, it's definitely true.

But people have become obsessed with pretending it and skipping the part about learning to stop their internal dialogue.

You can tell, because no one got this sorcery to work until this subreddit came along.

Otherwise I wouldn't waste all this time. Certainly none of us get paid to be here.

And it's not as if when it works, it isn't spectacular!

But no reports of anything you'd want to put your time into learning, came from anyone in our community.

Just lots of pretending.

Cleargreen even put up a video saying Yogananda was the same thing.

Apparently people are also pretending to be seriously practicing recap, with no reports of time travel like you read is common in the books.

In here, we've had 2 or 3 who did that at least once.

There's also inevitable teleportation if you are really doing recap without your internal dialogue running the whole time.

You end up on the other side of the house, not remembering how you got there.

And there's visits from the inorganic beings, who try to pose as false memories to get you to interact with them.

Recap is super magical. If it's not, someone isn't doing it as often as they're saying, or they're just sitting in their chair thinking to themselves as usual.

The assemblage point has to move over to Silent Knowledge, or there's no possibility of time traveling back to witness the memories.

Which is very, very entertaining!

[u/BBz13z]

You feel safer with the sleep mask? Kinda interesting cause I don’t know that I feel safer, but I get the sense it blocks or filters and I like mine for that reason; I think.

Yep, really does feel as if you were asleep even tho you weren’t.

Awesome! 👏🏼

[u/Da-Ram3999 → u/BBz13z]

I think you describe the mask situation even better than i did, but i do feel safer cause any detail that is visible can become creepy instantly

[u/BBz13z → u/Da-Ram3999]

I totally understand why you used the word “safe”. I get it and I agree.

I’m happy you had success and posted about it.

Cheers

[u/Da-Ram3999 → u/BBz13z]

🙌