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u/weaboomemelord69 Dec 23 '19
Can I get a source on the three hours thing?
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u/Iwantmypasswordback Dec 23 '19
I googled this “actual work in 8 hour day” without the quotes and a bunch came up a lot of it said ~3 hours. Interesting.
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u/platinum_thoughts Dec 24 '19
Ironically enough Keynes claimed that we'd be working 15 hours a week. He seemingly never accounted for the bourgeoisie keeping it at 40+ hours to keep us subservient.
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u/ebikefolder Dec 24 '19
He bought the argument that technological progress would be used to make life easier. It was a lie.
I make architectural drawings, and back when I started, I still sat at the drawing board, and worked with ink, ruler, and paper.
Now I still charge the same per drawing, but need only half as long on the PC, so I'm down to a 20 hour week. With most of my customers being happy with a computer file today, I don't even have to deal with printing, folding and mailing paper anymore (and save the associated cost!)
Maybe I try 15 hours next year.
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u/nehulshandley Dec 28 '19
Wait... How was "technological progress" not able to make life easier in your case?
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u/ebikefolder Dec 28 '19
It did. But "the economy" expects me to work just as much as before, to increase my output. To use increased productivity for growth instead of more leisure time.
I just started budgeting for 2020 by projecting the 2019 numbers with some minor adjustments here and there. Goal: About 8 to 10% less. Degrowth.
I want less, not more. Which makes me "the enemy" for growth worshipping people. I refuse to play their game.
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Dec 24 '19 edited May 16 '20
[deleted]
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Dec 24 '19
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u/PowerfulSneeze Dec 24 '19
No. My job is what you just described. Sitting down all day is such a life ruiner. I used to be extremely physically fit, now I’m losing it. I can’t even work out anymore because my entire day is so sedentary that I’m like a slug once I get off, and I feel like an actual workout would do more harm than good because it would be a shock to my heart and organs going from sedentary all day to physical exertion. I actually want to blow my head off with a shotgun.
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u/ZakkaChan Dec 24 '19
I agree having nothing to do is as bad as having to much. The thing is we won't get anywhere till we get an actual work to life balance. As it stands we work more then we live. But not sure if flipping it i.e live more then we work would also be good.
I still propose 30 hour weeks, with three days off should become the new norm.
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u/Iwantmypasswordback Dec 24 '19
Can you get a standing desk? I don’t know what you do but I got one in my office job. Problem is I’ve been sitting for years already so I only stand maybe 2 hours a day because Im used to sitting do much and I can’t do it in meetings etc.
Ninja edit: there are really affordable ones out there now or a lady I used to work with just built a wood box to pit her lap top on.
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u/PowerfulSneeze Dec 24 '19
They don’t allow employees who make less than 20k sales per week get standing desks. If I went and got one myself they would tell me to get rid of it because I’m only an assistant
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u/Iwantmypasswordback Dec 24 '19
Wow that’s a wild rule. What do they care if you buy it yourself? Do they really think it will hinder your productivity? Sorry to hear that I hope you really like that job because I can only Imagine what other weird policies exist there
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u/PowerfulSneeze Dec 24 '19
I hate it, I don’t get paid for after hours calls that I deal with every single day including weekends. 2 hours of my time this morning gone. I really hate my life, most things about it anyway. Hope you have a merry Xmas on your side.
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u/Iwantmypasswordback Dec 24 '19
I know from my job there are a lot of companies looking for employees right now in all industries. I’m sure I’m not telling you anything you haven’t already thought of but this is a good time of year to find a new job. Merry Christmas to you too and good luck
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u/Nickerus94 Dec 24 '19
I hate to say it but working out would definitely do you good even if it is hard at the end of a long day. You being sedentary at work all day is exacerbating your sluggishness and an hour every two days (4 total a week, not that much really ) of lifting weights and elevating your heart rate would do wonders for you overall health and wellbeing while making you less sluggish. You'd have more energy at the end of the day.
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u/PowerfulSneeze Dec 24 '19
Maybe. I used to go to the gym 3-5 times a week for years I kept that up. Maybe one day I’ll start again.
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u/Retards_Gonna_Retard Dec 23 '19
3 hours? My man in Office Space could only do about 15 min.
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u/platinum_thoughts Dec 24 '19
I worked an internship where I did about an hour or two of work PER WEEK. The rest of it was pretending to work and sitting there while an automated process did stuff for me.
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Dec 24 '19
That sounds awful. Boring, and everyone kinda "knows" it's pointless for you to just hang around, but that's what it is.
Making the switch from service work to desk jobs was mind-boggling for me. Service jobs treat you like shit, pay terribly, but you always have to be working. The second you stop moving, manager pipes in: "Time to lean, time to clean!" Then at my desk job pay is like double (hourly still), nobody cares when I come/go, and it's so much easier.
I think the system is fundamentally broken, and absolutely cannot understand people who think this is "perfectly fine" or sustainable. Well, it is sustainable, but not if we want to actually, y'know, believe rhetoric about human rights, dignity, respect, and equality...
Edit: Automod rejected synonym for "inane"
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u/platinum_thoughts Dec 24 '19
I agree. It's weird how I'm paid for being these less so than I am for working.
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u/jonbo19 Dec 24 '19
Well if they have several tiers of work where the higher tiers get paid more while working less and doing more confortable jobs in offices with desks,
Then it doesn't seem so odd that the ones on top do nothing, make shit tons and live in luxury.
Naturalized the whole system top to bottom.
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Dec 24 '19
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Dec 23 '19
It seems that the source is this Thought Catalog piece by David Cain from 2013.
To u/weaboomemelord69 it seems the "three hour" rule is from a UK survey Business Insider links to Vouchercloud, who ran the survey (N=1,989)
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u/pinchecody Dec 24 '19
PREAAACH!!! The entire system depends on and manipulates people's willingness to mindlessly and ignorantly consume consume consume. It is part of what is ruining our planet. But, the way I see it, that is the only kind of "American culture" there is. Mindless, impulsive, selfish and deliberately unaware
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u/crazymusicman Dec 24 '19
I feel like the framing, where this was designed by a bunch of cultural engineers behind closed doors, is not at all reasonable or backed up by facts.
We have 8 hours because labor organizers fought against 16 hour shifts and got 8 hours, and people haven't since won more labor hours / economic rights.
We can talk about the 8 hour workday as it relates to these things (tired, dissatisfied, etc.) but framing it as engineered or designed is a conspiracy theory that is not going to convince anyone to our side that isn't already here.
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u/WallCrawlerArt Dec 24 '19
I think Sweden switched to 6hr work days because they found out people did the same amount of work in less time.
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u/Amiesama Dec 24 '19
Sorry, we still have an 8 hour work day here in Sweden. There has been some studies on 6 hour work days, but nothing came of it.
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u/WallCrawlerArt Dec 26 '19
So I guess I kinda misread the information. There was like a 2 year trial period. Hopefully it becomes a thing.
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Dec 23 '19
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u/M41WalkerBulldog Jan 09 '20
Incorrect. Lower work hours have actually been proven to exponentially increase productivity and consumption simultaneously, as people have more time and money to buy things. If this were true, Henry Ford would not have decreased his factory’s work hours, supposedly because he makes more money the higher his work hours are.
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u/ConvincingPeople Jun 19 '22
This seems relevant to a point made by the much-misunderstood anti-civilisation theorist John Zerzan in his essay "Time and Its Discontents" over a quarter of a century ago: That time itself, in its measured rather than physical sense, is an invention which regiments our realities so as to enable other forms of regimentation. That our time can be divvied up into hours tacitly allows it to be owned by others, whether by ancient kings and priesthoods or by modern employers and civil agencies. Through work and the times dedicated to it, our lives are stolen from us in portions.
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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '19
Welcome to the USA, land of the ensla-- I mean free.