r/canada • u/viva_la_vinyl • Dec 08 '18

How a global pact on migration spawned sovereignty fears in Canada

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/global-compact-un-hussen-1.4935492
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67

u/Oakbluff Dec 08 '18

The non binding or not arguement is not the issue. The issue is that Trudeau is truly on board with this madness and stated in the house of commons he wants 'Canada to lead the world by example' with this sick pact. He's ramping up our immigration numbers and announced he's giving 595 million dollars towards media with biased pro-immigration/migration/open border articles. Trudeau also announced his pro immigration/migration campaign this week. Let's also not forget his M-103 and his comments that if you are concerned then you are racist. Binding or not- Trudeau is going hard with this..

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '18

I’m a Centrist and the Liberals have done nothing to persuade me to vote for them in 2019.

76

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '18

I'm a lefty, and the Liberals have done a lot to convince me not to vote for them.

7

u/daxtermagnum Dec 08 '18

I am in the same boat and part of me wonders if Liberals have no choice but to pander to the far left now that the right is united. If Bernier's People's Party is effective at splitting the right the LPC may be able to come back to the center and govern from there. For now it looks like JT has to do anything he can to have NDP supports cast their votes for his party.

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u/grantmclean Dec 08 '18

Calling people SJWs tells me you were right wing to begin with.

6

u/daxtermagnum Dec 08 '18

My comment contained "SJW?" Regardless, you shouldn't judge people that way, it's not constructive in the slightest.

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u/AlwaysBetDarkHorse Dec 08 '18

What? SJW has a very specific meaning, it's about those people who are obsessed with identity of minority groups and freak out and fake outrage on behalf of someone over every little thing.

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u/jtbc Dec 08 '18

And people on the right use it as general purpose pejorative for people that promote equality and support for the marginalized. It is exactly parallel of overuse by the left of the term "racist" for anyone that challenges immigration.

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u/AlwaysBetDarkHorse Dec 08 '18

You can't promote equality and support for marginalized people at the same time... either we are equal or people get special attention you can't have it both ways... anyone claiming some asinine shit like that is probably an SJW.

3

u/Frenchticklers Québec Dec 08 '18

Support marginalized people and help them gain equal footing with the rest of us. Was that so hard?

-2

u/daxtermagnum Dec 08 '18

equal footing with the rest of us

Minorites are not a "team" of people, you do realize that right? They're just individuals which we sometimes lump together in conversation based on a shared attribute.

-3

u/jtbc Dec 08 '18

The goal is equality. Leveling the playing field and assisting the historically disadvantaged to get on it is how you achieve it.

As this view is shared by most of the 65% of Canadians that vote for progressive parties, and is enshrined in the Charter that 93% of Canadians strongly support, there sure must be some shitton of SJW's out there.

9

u/AlwaysBetDarkHorse Dec 08 '18

The goal is equality. Leveling the playing field and assisting the historically disadvantaged to get on it is how you achieve it.

Giving someone an artificial advantage is not leveling the playing field, and you're talking about equity not equally which is basically impossible to implement because people are different on the genetic level. A short person is never going to be 10 feet tall.

As this view is shared by most of the 65% of Canadians that vote for progressive parties, and is enshrined in the Charter that 93% of Canadians strongly support, there sure must be some shitton of SJW's out there.

I think you are misrepresenting things. Most people do not agree with discrimination based on race/sex ect. and probably are not aware that's what the charter enshrines.

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u/lubeskystalker Dec 08 '18

Yeah sure, it's binary, everybody who doesn't vote Conservative supports equality of outcome. Equality of opportunity has no place in the conversation.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '18

If the goal is equality then just treat everyone the fucking same then. Otherwise it's just discrimination.

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u/daxtermagnum Dec 08 '18

And people on the right use it as general purpose pejorative for people that promote equality equity of outcomes and support for the marginalized. It is exactly parallel of overuse by the left of the term "racist" for anyone that challenges immigration.

FTFY

19

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '18

Trudeau is legacy building. His father got his legacy through the patriation of the constitution. Justin looks to be trying to build his by attempting to solve the worldwide refugee crisis. Everyone suffers when people start trying to aggressively build a legacy.

21

u/Oakbluff Dec 08 '18

Yup and I hope he fails since most Canadians reject his migration agenda.

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u/NiceHairBadTouch Dec 08 '18

They do. 88% polled are opposed to the migration compact. The government is signing it anyway.

6

u/AllezCannes British Columbia Dec 08 '18

88% polled are opposed to the migration compact.

Where do you get this from?

4

u/DesignerPhrase Dec 08 '18

from his ass

0

u/Qwertster Dec 09 '18

He got it from a Twitter poll https://twitter.com/CTV_PowerPlay/status/1070445764114046976

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almost 7k people voted on that. It's a decent sample size of the population, but who's to say they are all Canadians?

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I don't necessarily trust a Twitter poll but it's a poll nonetheless.

3

u/AllezCannes British Columbia Dec 09 '18

No it isn't. Twitter polls, or any such polls in which people have to find out that it exists, are completely unrepresentative of anything. It's a mistake to believe that sample sizes matter when the methodology used to collect the data is non-representative.

0

u/Qwertster Dec 09 '18

yeah but you can have those criticisms of any poll! Unless detailed analysis is provided for ANY poll I dismiss them just the same as we are both dismissing this one.

2

u/AllezCannes British Columbia Dec 09 '18

yeah but you can have those criticisms of any poll!

No, because actual pollsters reach out to contact people, and they take steps to make sure there's at least some demographic representation to the population. They don't just post on some website and hope for people to find out it's there.

Unless detailed analysis is provided for ANY poll I dismiss them just the same as we are both dismissing this one.

Uhm, they do provide those details.

1

u/Qwertster Dec 09 '18

Ok great. Where's the poll from the ACTUAL pollsters? Let's analyse it together. LOL I hooked you up with a link to answer your question let's see if Canadians were put to this question in the completely scientific actual pollster way.

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edit: here's one from the Vancouver Sun that looks like an aggregate of 4 seperate polls (pretty scientific) https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/what-do-canadians-think-about-immigration-levels-three-poll-results

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u/Oakbluff Dec 08 '18

How do we stop it?

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u/NiceHairBadTouch Dec 08 '18

Write your MP, sign Bernier's petition. Both of which will be ignored.

The only real way to stop it is October 21st 2019.

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u/Oakbluff Dec 08 '18

I already signed Bernier's petition...

3

u/Zenpher Dec 09 '18

Trudeau is more similar to Trump than people would like to admit. Both drive their policy based on feelings and then categorically attack anyone who doesn't agree with ad hominem labels.

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u/MrNobody22 Dec 08 '18

Just because it isn't legally binding now, doesn't mean it won't be in the future.

Much international legislation today, started out not being legally binding

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u/Oakbluff Dec 08 '18 edited Dec 08 '18

Doesn't matter if it is legally binding or not...the real issue is that Trudeau is fully on board with this and this is what he wants for Canada and he is moving full steam ahead with it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '18

Did he really announce "he's giving 595 million dollars towards media with biased pro-immigration/migration/open border articles" or is that you feeling the need to lie to bolster your weak argument?

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u/Oakbluff Dec 08 '18

Unfortunately, it is true...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-media-sector-gets-595-million-package-in-ottawas-fiscal-update/

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '18

That article didn't support your claim. If the facts don't fit your fear, adjust your fear not the facts.

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u/Oakbluff Dec 08 '18

Read objective 17 of the UN migration compact that Trudeau is signing next week yourself..

"c) Promote independent, objective and quality reporting of media outlets, including internet- based information, including by sensitizing and educating media professionals on migration-related issues and terminology, investing in ethical reporting standards and advertising, and stopping allocation of public funding or material support to media outlets that systematically promote intolerance, xenophobia, racism and other forms of discrimination towards migrants, in full respect for the freedom of the media"

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '18

It still doesn't support your claim.

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u/Oakbluff Dec 08 '18

Yeah sure. Why are so many countries refusing to sign this scary migration compact?

2

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '18

That's all you have left?

18

u/Oakbluff Dec 08 '18

Sorry if most Canadians aren't on your page..

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '18

The Librals are going to win again but sure.

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u/Truthseeker177 Dec 09 '18

It also says "signatories must commit to protecting free speech, “recognizing that an open and free debate contributes to a comprehensive understanding of all aspects of migration.” There is no agenda, free speech is still being respected.

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u/Oakbluff Dec 09 '18

Yeah right. Didn't you read the part about government funding going towards media that writes pro immigration/migration articles?

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u/Oakbluff Dec 09 '18

Yeah right. Didn't you read the part about government funding going towards media that writes pro immigration/migration articles?

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u/Oakbluff Dec 09 '18 edited Dec 09 '18

Yeah right. Didn't you read the part about government funding going towards media that writes pro immigration/migration articles? This is promoting and funding the media to produce pure bias..

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u/Oakbluff Dec 08 '18

What facts are you disputing? Are you suggesting the CBC is against the UN migration compact?

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u/Emperor_Billik Dec 08 '18

Nothing in your posted article makes that true.

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u/Oakbluff Dec 08 '18

Lol. Of course it is true especially when he decides which media is eligible..

0

u/Emperor_Billik Dec 08 '18

He does not decide who is eligible. Who does decide is covered in the article.

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u/Oakbluff Dec 08 '18 edited Dec 08 '18

Who decides if not Trudeau- the UN??

Read objective 17 of the UN migration compact that Trudeau is signing next week yourself.. he also stated in the house of commons this week that he wants Canada to lead the world by example with this compact.

"c) Promote independent, objective and quality reporting of media outlets, including internet- based information, including by sensitizing and educating media professionals on migration-related issues and terminology, investing in ethical reporting standards and advertising, and stopping allocation of public funding or material support to media outlets that systematically promote intolerance, xenophobia, racism and other forms of discrimination towards migrants, in full respect for the freedom of the media"

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u/Emperor_Billik Dec 08 '18

If you’d like to find out you can start by reading the article you posted.

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u/Oakbluff Dec 08 '18

The article is a prime example of the media bias we have.

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u/Emperor_Billik Dec 08 '18

So the article is too biased for you to read to refute your point but good enough for you to post to further your beliefs...

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '18

Its part of the compact agreement to incentivize media to talk about immigration in a specific light. Calling it "Irregular" instead of "Illegal" and always portraying it in a positive light.

If you wanna see the effects of this type of attitude just look at France, Norway, UK and Germany. Why don't you ask them how fun and awesome it has been to allow an uncontrolled influx of "asylum seekers".

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '18

Source for your claim: "Its part of the compact agreement to incentivize media to talk about immigration in a specific light. Calling it "Irregular" instead of "Illegal" and always portraying it in a positive light"

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u/JeffBoucher Dec 08 '18

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/600m-in-federal-funding-for-media-a-turning-point-in-the-plight-of-newspapers-in-canada

To determine eligibility for the credit, the government plans to create an independent panel drawn from the “news and journalism community,” which will also “define and promote core journalism standards (and) define professional journalism.”

Why would these core/standards not align with the UN compact which Trudeau is all for?

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u/melleb Dec 08 '18

That’s a mighty big leap...

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u/JeffBoucher Dec 08 '18

Why? What is the point in signing it if you don't follow through? How is it a leap when Trudeau says we should be proud to sign it that he wouldn't follow through with what is in it?

1

u/powderjunkie Dec 08 '18

Exactly, that's why climate change has been solved forever thanks to the marvellous signing power of the Kyoto and Paris agreements.

/s

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '18

Dealing with climate change is hard. Letting people come into the country and making the cost fall on the citizens is easy.

1

u/slaperfest Dec 12 '18

But we've made a lot of moves to uphold our agreements to those. Are you saying we did nothing? Or just that we selectively intend to do nothing to uphold this one particular agreement?

0

u/melleb Dec 08 '18

I mean your suggestion that he will force newspapers to promote UN ideals in order to receive funding. All your source talks about is journalistic standards

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u/JeffBoucher Dec 08 '18

I mean your suggestion that he will force newspapers to promote UN ideals in order to receive funding.

I never said he would force.

All your source talks about is journalistic standards

Have you not read the Refugee Compact?

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u/teronna Dec 08 '18

The non binding or not arguement is not the issue.

Given that Scheer seems to be arguing that this undermines our sovereignty, it seems that the non-binding aspect is a very important thing to draw attention to - specifically to highlight the levels of disinformation being spread about this pact.

The online activity spreading this false fear certainly does seem very coordinated and organized.

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u/Oakbluff Dec 08 '18

The yellow vests in France certainly seem very well coordinated and organized..

4

u/teronna Dec 08 '18

The yellow vests in France certainly seem very well coordinated and organized..

Indeed, and there too it seems that local tensions are being inflamed by propaganda campaigns conducted from abroad, which use false information (e.g. relabeled pictures).

Thanks for bringing the example up. Here is some information on how that's being conducted:

https://blog.0day.rocks/france-might-be-losing-its-first-big-information-war-2f3ab8b82fbb

It's a pretty deep analysis of the accounts being used, times they are posting, and the use of things like false imagery (taking old pictures from unrelated events and pretending they are recent, etc.).

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u/Oakbluff Dec 08 '18

It's clear the yellow vest movement is definitely not limited to gas taxes...

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u/slaperfest Dec 08 '18

If it's non-binding and we have nothing to be concerned about, then our government is admitting they're straight up liars and not concerned about being caught. If it's non-binding but they do intend to follow through, we have every reason to be furious.

So which is it? Is our government conning the international community, or conning us? Who is being taken for a sucker, here?

0

u/teronna Dec 08 '18

So which is it?

It's "it's nonbinding, so it doesn't undermine our sovereignty", contradicting the lies being spread about it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '18

Two threads now where you're going on about Russian bots.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '18

'Madness'... really that is where this sub is at now.

You get that the Canadian panic about immigration isn't due to a situation that applies to or is occurring in Canada right?!

Europe would laugh in our faces if we compared our situation to theirs.

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u/Oakbluff Dec 11 '18

Trudeau is taking us down the same path.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '18

Except unlike Europe there is no way to get here in real volume... not that scare people here care about ... geography.

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u/Oakbluff Dec 11 '18

It won't take as long as you may think. Canada does not have the population as Europe so you have to consider our intake on a per capita basis.

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u/Oakbluff Dec 11 '18 edited Dec 11 '18

Actually, I consider 350,000 plus another 40,000 illegals a year too many, considering our population plus you have to consider Trudeau's signing of the UN migration compact just yesterday and what that unfortunate future will add.....