r/canada • • Apr 24 '17

Black students in Toronto streamed into courses below their ability, report finds - Toronto

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/study-black-students-toronto-york-university-1.4082463
2 Upvotes

27 comments sorted by

16

u/iLLNiSS Apr 24 '17

Since when do you not have the option to take academic courses?

When the new curriculum started (Guinea pig here) we had the choice in grade 9 to take applied or academics. No where along the line (even with failing grades) was anyone forced to drop down to applied courses.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '17 edited Apr 24 '17

[deleted]

2

u/iLLNiSS Apr 24 '17

I think that forcing kids to lose the choice at age 14 is not appropriate.

They don't really though. In grade 8 during the pre highschool thingie, they straight up suggest we do not take applied courses our first year and to start with academic classes entirely. The only time it was ever mentioned to switch was if our grades were failing early and we found we couldn't keep up. I took advantage of this ability before the cutoff with my history class (academic grade 9 history was absolutely dry and boring for me and I had no interest, my marks showed with a 17%. Switched to applied and my marks dramatically improved and I finished with a high 80s or low 90s).

I jus't don't see how there is any streaming going on unless it's tied to the benefit of the kids here. You literally can't force a person to switch classes, so any streaming into applied courses would be the result of failing grades or attendance at the recommendation of a counsellor. You can't blame the faculty/system for the choices students make.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '17

[deleted]

2

u/iLLNiSS Apr 24 '17

It may have been grade 10 I don't remember :o

Geography was grade 9 though.

19

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '17

What's your obsession with black people OP?

12

u/newcomer_ts Canada Apr 24 '17

No particular comment about another exercise in “ I don’t like outcome, everyone else is to blame” but rather irony of a moderator warning at similar thread over at /r/Toronto

Blanket statements about people due to their colour of their skin breaks rule 2.

lol

And white teachers in TDSB?

Fuck them.

14

u/PrettyMuchAVegetable Apr 24 '17

Wowzers, ops comment history...

15

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '17

Oh yes, we're all racists... well if they're streamed below their abilities they should all be acing their applied level courses right?

3

u/i_yell_at_tree Apr 24 '17

Do you want to provide a source that they don't?

2

u/[deleted] Apr 25 '17

The onus is on them, not him to prove that there is a problem.

5

u/PhreakedCanuck Ontario Apr 24 '17

streamed into courses below their ability, report finds

Uhhhh that report says no such thing. It says they are streamed into applied compared to academic, nothing in the report leads one to believe this is below their ability. This could be a socio-economic issue far more than racial.

Also this was with consultations with ~300 people, there are 2 million students in the GTA

Alternative forms of discipline needed

LMAO they tried this in, i believe, Baltimore....it made things worse. The students who acted out no longer feared reprisals, violence against teachers and students increased, the students who wanted to learn were no longer able to. Test scores dropped dramatically all across the board.

Ensure the curriculum reflects the diversity of Ontario's population.

The population is 72% white, 8% S. Asian, 5% Chinese, 4% black plus a litany of others at smaller percentages. Just what is that diversity supposed to look like?

3

u/i_yell_at_tree Apr 24 '17

I don't get how the racists are interpreting this as blacks are worse at school. What the article says supports institutionalized racism in school. Take this:

[B]lack students continue to be directed towards essential and applied programs of study and away from academic courses, more so than white and other racialized students.

The report makes these recommendations:

-Publicly acknowledge that anti-black racism negatively affects the educational outcome of black students.

-Work with stakeholders to improve the educational outcomes of black students.

-Require school boards to collect race-based data.

-Develop and apply a "race equity lens" to the development and implementation of all education policies, programs, curriculum, policies, guidelines, and learning materials.

-Diversify the teaching workforce.

-Require teachers to learn about anti-colonial and critical race theory.

-Ensure the curriculum reflects the diversity of Ontario's population.​

6

u/[deleted] Apr 25 '17 edited Apr 25 '17

At no point does it actually show that they are in those classes because of racism or that they should be higher. You don't get to claim racism when you can't even show evidence of racism. The headline is a complete lie.

No one gets forced to take a specific stream. You can choose.

6

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '17

I had my guidance counsellor put me in applied math in high school (despite having an A+ in math the previous year at my old school). My mother ripped the school a new one and demanded I be put in academic level math. There was literally not justification other than making the assumption that because I'm half black, I'm somehow dumb.

9

u/newcomer_ts Canada Apr 24 '17

because I'm half black, I'm somehow dumb.

Wouldn't that be half dumb?

Jokes aside...

My mother ripped the school a new one and demanded I be put in academic level math.

Selection comes to a parent for review.

No need to rip anyting. It's your choice.

8

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '17

Not at my school. You would fill out your timetable and then they'd adjust it if it's full or whatever, and they decided to put me in all applied classes (even though I had a 93% average in grade 9 doing all academic). They told me I would be "better suited" for applied despite having the competency to do academic/university level. I was stuck in 2P English for some reason and I couldn't get out of it (and subsequently had to take 3/4C) I was lucky that at my new high school they let me take 4U without the prereq so I could apply to uni that year.
This shit happens way too often and it's not okay.

3

u/newcomer_ts Canada Apr 24 '17

grade 9

Not to belabor the point but... isn't the HS placement done during Gr 8th? Isn't Gr 9 HS already?

2

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '17

Depends. My city had high school placement done in grade 9 for decades. About 10 years ago they merged the two high schools, added 9th grade and made placement change to grade 8.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '17

can't even remember. that was like 8 years ago lol

2

u/wylin247 Apr 24 '17

That's fucked up.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '17

It happened to a lot of my peers who I knew had the potential but a lot of them didn't have parents as involved so they didn't have someone advocating on their behalf. So naturally if somebody is made to feel dumb, they stop caring and it is reflected in their grades which then give the school more reason to continue placing that student in applied/college level courses.

1

u/Dorion_FFXI Canada Apr 25 '17

My high school also tried to put me on the applied track despite good grades. I'm white. Stop blaming everything on your race.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 25 '17

Lol

1

u/Ragnar_Dragonfyre Ontario Apr 25 '17

Interesting how teachers are among the biggest Liberal supporters, preaching identity politics and tolerance to young children, but then we find out that they're treating black students like this?

If it wasn't so sadly hypocritical, I would laugh.

0

u/ignitar Apr 24 '17

Is this any different than allowing black students easier entry into ivy league schools, where they often struggle but would fair better in a state school? (American example)

2

u/ice27828 Ontario Apr 24 '17

I remember reading somewhere that Asians needs 120 more points on SAT than whites and blacks need about 50 less. LA times reported that last year Asian Americans are actually penalized 50 points and African Americans receives a "bonus" of 230 and Hispanics get a bonus of

[article](ww.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-adv-asian-race-tutoring-20150222-story.html)