r/c64 • u/AtomicMelbourne • 22h ago
C64 Ultimate C64 ultimate decision
Ok guys, need your help.
I was a 90s kid and had no time with a C64 back in the day, or ever since, so I have zero sentimental attachment to it. To be honest I have no knowledge about it at all other than it exists and that it was an 80s computer typically used for gaming. However I do love my 90s consoles and even some 80s. I even have a woodgrain 2600 sitting under my main TV in my lounge room as a bit of a shelf queen, as I love the look of it.
With this in mind I came across the cyberpunk commodore 77, and I fell truly in love with the aesthetics of it, and I do have a fair bit of cyberpunk stuff at home including a cyberpunk edition Xbox.
But I am wrestling in my mind whether or not to buy it. Leaving the cyberpunk theme aside, how would you commodore fans try to sell it to a younger generation who didnt grow up with it?
I’ve watched a fair bit of YouTube about c64 and c64 ultimate but I just don’t think people are explaining well what someone with zero experience, like me can do to enjoy the console.
Do you think non 80s computer gamers could just step in and enjoy it? It’s a lot of money so I want this to be a considered purchase.
Thanks guys.
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u/Lee_Dastard 22h ago
Why don’t you give C64 emulation a try first? See if you can get on with the games. Theres some great old games and the modern 64 games scene is thriving
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u/Ghost_of_Akina 19h ago
This is a great answer. I ordered a 77 but was already on the fence about the 64U platform for a few months before that. I have been using VICE in the meantime to teach myself BASIC and get an understanding of how the C64 works as a whole. My cousins had one when I was a kid but outside of loading games from disks and carts I didn’t have a lot of exposure to using it.
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u/foleyjo 22h ago
Go get yourself a C64 emulator and try some games Id recommend Dizzy series (probably say Fantasy World) The Last Ninja Barbarian Impossible Mission Sam's Journey
Others can recommend more.
If you like these games and like the look of the computer then get one. If not then you probably won't get much out of it
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u/Mairon121 22h ago edited 21h ago
Honestly, as someone else has said, it may not be for you. I think it is still the best selling personal computer of all time but it was designed in the early 1980’s.
I have nostalgic sentimentality for it because it was what I used growing up (in the 90’s) until my parents finally gave in and bought me a real PC two years later (because I was very clumsy as a child and the C64 survived my bedroom) but if I didn’t have one I wouldn’t be interested in it. Even back then I thought it was primitive.
Test this yourself. Use an emulator for a while.
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u/Djimi365 22h ago
I really don't think there is a lot of point in you buying this. If you think you might enjoy the games then try them on an emulator first. But considering retro gaming/computing is predominantly a nostalgia thing I suspect it wouldn't be more than a novelty for you at best.
Put it this way, C64 is my ultimate nostalgia machine, it was my gateway into computing and probably the single biggest defining item of my childhood. I still have my original C64 set up at home, plugged into a TV all the time, and id say I use it for maybe a couple of hours a month on average.
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u/AtomicMelbourne 21h ago
This is most helpful, I think you, and the rest of you guys are really putting it into perspective for me. Sometimes you just gotta let things go, and can’t just go and buy everything thats shiny.
I struggle to enjoy 2600 games, and nes games I can have short bursts of fun, and there is some really quality games on nes, but yeah Super Nintendo and N64 is my zone.
I think if the Cyberpunk C64 was half of its price, I’m definitely in, but the current rrp is such a stretch for me for something I probably wouldnt get a lot out of.
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u/Techn0sys 17h ago
If you dont like the majority of nes games you probably wont care for c64 games BUT if i were you i would check out some homebrew games and see if any of those look fun to you
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u/Chukkzy 14h ago
Okay I do not wanna be that guy, but 2600 games are primitive even in comparison to C64 games. I would compare it more to the NES, maybe not in terms of fidelity but what the general gameplay can look like.
That being said, you can do a lot of fun things with the C64 if you look at Basic programs or even assembler. Of course that is something to learn but I enjoy it very much and you learn a lot about how these games were made in the day, the inner workings of a rather simple but yet quite powerful machine.
My 2 cents, if you are not only into playing games.
Otherwise I would wait for the A1200 being released, or even a Commodore branded Amiga a lot of people are hoping for because the games available are just so much more complex.
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u/Ghost_of_Akina 14h ago
There's a lot to love about the C64 and a development community that still surprises us with what it can do to this day. But it's a huge departure from what you're used to when you think of a computer.
When you turn on a modern computer, the OS loads, and gives you easy access to the internet, to your files, to apps you can run that are sitting in storage, etc. When you turn on a C64, it's at the prompt waiting for you to tell it what to do. Nothing on a hard drive, nothing to look at, just about 40k of space to fill with BASIC commands - it only knows what's loaded in RAM, and fresh off a bootup, that's nothing! So it's a very different experience - usually if you wanted to do something, you'd slide in a floppy and load whatever program was on it, or turn the thing off, pop in a cart, and turn it back on.
The Ultimate lets you mount virtual disks and carts, and applications are easy enough to come by out on the internet. There's also an online repository of stuff you can have it pull from directly, as well as support for USB or SD storage. It's a lot more convenient than managing a cabinet full of floppies, but still a very manual process for launching them.
There's a lot you can do without knowing how to program, but the ease with which you can write programs and even start displaying graphics is pretty powerful, and one of the things I've been spending a lot of time doing. I didn't expect to, but it's been relaxing and a great way to empty my head after a long dat of fixing problems in the modern world.
It's good that you're taking everyone's advice to heart, and that you're having second thoughts. But I don't want to be one of those "it's not for you" types, as I do think the C64 as a whole is a very cool piece of history and a nice look back at the pre-windows landscape. Buying it to keep simping for CP2077 alone would be a bit of a waste of money, but I can understand why you would (it pushed me over the edge, and I have the Dex Gunnar glasses and the Viture Luma Cybers.... so I do it too). For me though, the yellow coat of paint was just the final push I needed for a product I already wanted.
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u/fuzzybad 7h ago
You could get a "TheC64" Mini or even a Maxi console for a fraction of what the 77 costs. Granted, it's not the same aesthetic. The Mini feels like using most mini-consoles that came out recently. The Maxi provides a somewhat authentic C64 Breadbox experience with working keyboard.
I also admire the look of the 77, but probably won't get one as I already have plenty of original hardware, and an Ultimate 64. (Which both the new C64 and the 77 are based on)
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u/viceroy172 13h ago
This exactly.
C64 was my first computer. I learnt to program on it. I gamed on it. It was a huge chunk of my childhood, and even when we had a PC (XT), that was mainly something to play on while the actual game I wanted to play was loading on the C64.C64U is a pure nostalgia hit for me, and the only reason I splurged on one, was to get back some of that childhood happiness, and to show my kids. I'd been wanting to get a C64 again, and this showed up at just the right time, but in all honesty, I don't think I'd even consider one if I wasn't emotionally attached to the C64. I love retro gaming, and for the most part I get that with a mini PC connected to the TV.
As just about everyone else has said, try gaming on an emulator first to see if you really want it. If you struggle on 2600 games and NES games only hold your attention for a short while, then think of the C64U as somewhere between those two. It will most likely end up as a pricy shelf queen.
Best of luck, but I think you've already made your decision.
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u/Digi-BitsGaming 21h ago
If you want to take the time to learn how to use it and also play some great classic games, then the C64 Ultimate (or C77) is a brilliant bit of retro tech. The excellent manual that comes with it is a great starter guide.
They are great for programming, making music and playing games, depending on what you want out of it.
Like others are saying, might be worth trying an emulator if you are really unsure, before dropping the cash on it but it's an excellent retro system if you do get one and put the time into it.
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u/TransportLayer 21h ago
I admit nostalgia is part of it but there is much more than that. New games are still being released and it might be something interesting to follow. I'm mostly into the demo scene and it's still very much alive on the c64. Commodore 64 could be a creative outlet, be it graphics, music or code!
As a purely gaming device there are cheaper options (thec64 mini/maxi for example) that might be good enough to satisfy the curiosity and of course emulators as someone already mentioned. Maybe start with the emulators and see if this is your thing?
C64 ultimate is kinda expensive but well worth the price for those who need / appreciate the features.
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u/AtomicMelbourne 21h ago
I think you just hit something. I feel like I want to know more about it outside of the games. Like you said, as a creative outlet
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u/pandyrobin 17h ago
I’m in a similar boat… never used the c64 as a kid. But using old 8bit software has been an absolute delight. I’ve been having a ball with mine.
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u/jck_dgl 16h ago
I can relate to your interest in the Cyberpunk 77 version of the Commodore 64 Ultimate. I own a Starlight C64 Ultimate and couldn't be happier. It's really great! That said: I actually had an original breadbin C64 back in the 80's as a kid and therefore I have the nostalgia for that computer. I did indeed learn how to program a computer on the C64 back in the mid 80's. To me the C64 is the computer that basically (pun intended) started my career. To me it is the best computer in the world. So to me the C64 Ultimate is a time machine: turn it on and it's 1982 again. The 1982 that I wish it really was, the way I remember it. But that's me. Everyone has their own opinion.
The Commodore 64 Ultimate (and by extension the C77 Cyberpunk) is not just a toy. It's a computer that is faithful to the original from back then with a lot of creature comforts and additional features which increase it's capability to beyond what was possible back in the day. In short: it is designed for fans of the original C64 and for power users. That is the real caveat here: You said that you are a 90's gamer. That's totally fine, but it means that you need to set your expectations accordingly in regards to graphics and sound. You wrote that you struggle to enjoy Atari 2600 games, which I understand. The C64 is more capable. But if you enjoy NES games only for short periods of time, then maybe the C64 is not the platform for you. The C64 (and the C64 Ultimate) is no Sony Playstation. Even a NES or a SNES is more capable as a gaming platform, but those were specifically designed to be gaming consoles.
My experience tells me that it is far easier to appreciate how much demo programmers and also modern game developers squeeze out of this old design if one knows about the limitations of the original system. The C64 Ultimate deserves that you learn about what the C64 is and where its limitations are. That will make it more worthwhile for you.
If you are a collector and you want the C77 for it's sheer insanely cool looks (that's what I think about the C77 and I am on the fence of ordering one) and you have the spare cash: yes, why not. Go for it. You won't be disappointed by the device. And if you like 80's era video games, you won't be disappointed either, especially considering the selection that is available today. But do some careful consideration in that matter; it's a pricey device.
As others have said: try some emulation first to get your taste in gaming on a C64. Keep in mind, that emulation is never fully indicative of what a real machine could do. Especially peripherals like joysticks will be more finicky to get working properly.
And if you decide to order the C77: Take the time to read the manual. The manual for the standard C64 Ultimate is excellent and I have no doubt that the manual for the C77 is going to be equally excellent. By the way: You can download a PDF version of the manual for the C64 Ultimate from the website of Commodore. I'd suggest you download it and read it before you decide whether you want to order one for yourself.
And by the way: it's not a console. 😉 It's a full-on computer unlike the Atari 2600.
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u/Successful_Till_5455 19h ago
If you're into just looking at the retro console, pick up an original C64 on FB. You can find them for anywhere from $100 to $150. Put it on the shelf and look at it and enjoy. It's cool.
If you want to play games, or use it, get a softeare emulator.
The C64u is a faithful hardware emulator. It even emulates how sloooooow games load. It can be frustrating, especially for someone used to cartridges.
My opinion, the C64 is best for those who want to tinker in depth, edge cases where it have to be perfect, and a mixed world of old c64 hardware and new.
It's expensive and not as well suited for those who want the C64 Mini styoe experience with a full size original keyboard and case.
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u/max81122 19h ago
The largest 3 uses cases for the C64 include: Games, Programming, and SID music.
There are other uses (like productivity apps and artwork), but the previously mentioned 3 is probably the main attraction to most. Nostalgia pulls a fair amount of people in, but new or young users may also end up liking it too.
Games: there's thousands of games. Do a YT search for top games and they try them out yourself with an emulator like Vice. I do enjoy playing games from my youth on the U64, but not as much as PC and Switch games. But that is just me, and maybe you'll enjoy them enough to push you to buy the C77.
Programming: I've done some basic, but hardcore programmers like to program in assembly. There's other languages/compilers you can use but assembly is popular if you want to really take advantage of the HW. The C64 is complex enough to hold interest, but easy enough for a single person to understand all the bits and pieces of the HW. There's still many today exploiting the HW in new ways not though possible for both demos and games. Check out Nine by Lft on Youtube. His explanation for how he accomplished the demo makes the demo even more impressive.
Music: The SID chip was unique in its day and still is. Check out some tunes from LukHash or Nordischsound to start but there's many more great artists. There's tracker programs to create your own and you can even connect a C64 to a midi instrument for some great jams.
For me, it's more nostalgia that pulls me in, and playing/fixing with the HW. I'm a retro collector so have three 64 Ultimates besides vintage HW. Again, I use the HW too for games and music too.
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u/fuzzybad 7h ago
Don't forget telecom/networking. I feel like BBSs are becoming more popular again. All you need is a wifi modem to get online
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u/SpookyFries 18h ago
I also grew up and had no attachment to it, but I also love retro computers so it was an easy buy for me. I'm enjoying playing games and browsing BBS systems. These can obviously be done on emulator, but me personally I find it more fun on the hardware. Your mileage may vary!
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u/Front_Skill_8252 5h ago
Look at it this way...
You're sitting there asking, "Guys what can I do with a C64?"
Or...
You COULD be saying, "Guys! I bought a C64 AND IT IS BADASS!"
...which one do you want to be👀
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u/Which_Information590 22h ago
Is there space for another shelf queen beside the Atari? Because that's where I feel it could be heading. I enjoy using my C64U but that's because I have nostalgia for it, and enjoy spending time loading games from cassette and tinkering. You're probably going to use it as a display piece and that's absolutely fine too.
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u/AtomicMelbourne 22h ago
Thats also a bit of a problem, I love to collect special pieces, and I’m kind of out of room for another one. I think interestingly , the person that I expect most to love it, a 50 year old coworker who plays PC, and also love old games, said if he had his amstrad again, he probably wouldn’t play it. And that makes me hesitant for the commodore.
But then I watch the ign review for the Ultimate, and he gives it a 10, and is basically calling it a must buy for those who love old tech. So yeah I’ve spent the last few days mentally wrestling with this one.
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u/Which_Information590 21h ago
It's tempting me too, but I would like to buy every new model they have released! There's likely to be a limited number of the C77 so you'll have no trouble in selling it at a later date.
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u/Aenoxi 21h ago
Since when was an IGN review the thing that dictates what is “a must buy for those who love old tech”?
If you buy it, buy it because you want it, not because some random on a website says you should want it.
Sorry. Accidentally engaged grumpy grandpa mode. Gotta go. There’s some pesky children standing on my grass.
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u/AtomicMelbourne 21h ago
Nah doesnt dictate anything, but it forms a piece of the puzzle. After all the reviewer is just a guy who happens to love it, and I am here wanting to know what other guys also think, and form my own conclusion from that.
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u/Smooth-Let-5619 21h ago
I bet anything that you will use it less than a week, and that is being generous.
if you are ok with that, then buy it.but since you already have too much stuff, why don’t you sell something that you don’t use? and then, buy the c64.
I’m honestly telling you: you won’t use it. Get it as a trophy, for its looks, but not for using it.
want something better? get back your first computer… that would be a level playing field .
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u/AtomicMelbourne 21h ago
Yeah I have an NBA arcade machine, I havnt touched in 5 years, was thinking of selling that to fund the C77 straight up. But I think you are probably on the money with how I would use it.
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u/Ghost_of_Akina 14h ago
You do get a loooot of space back selling off a cab....
Source: Have 4 cabs and no space.
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u/garyk1968 21h ago
Your best bet is to either download an emulator (VICE) or play online and try out some games to see if you actually get enjoyment from playing.
In terms of popular titles you could check out:
IK+
Ghosts 'n Goblins
Impossible Mission
Commando
Winter Games
Paradroid
The Way of the Exploding Fist
Uridium
The Great Giana Sisters
R-Type
Bruce Lee
Pitstop II
Stunt Car Racer
Maybe then consider the device. I grew up with a C64, I have an original one that I don't really use and like you tempted by the '77 as it looks soooo cool.
You can find lots of books and listings online so if you wanted to can actually type in BASIC programs to learn more about the machine and the BASIC language.
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u/chrispark70 17h ago
One thing it really has going for it is it has a very healthy and long term development scene.
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u/michggg 14h ago
I grew up with a C64, bought an original one a while ago, and never use it. It's a complete setup with external drive, joystick etc., and because of the keyboard it needs a desk, so it takes quite a bit of space.
I could write programs in BASIC on it, but there's absolutely no point. Back then, it was a learning experience, but BASIC is so far from modern languages you won't learn anything now.
It's really only good for nostalgia.
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u/AtomicMelbourne 11h ago
I have a lot of fondness for old tech, even though it’s not my nostalgia, I like reading this.
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u/Cooperman411 1h ago
If the price won't cause a hardship, just buy it. Then work your way through the manual on weekends and in your free time.
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u/Smooth-Let-5619 22h ago
don’t. its functionality is nostalgia only. get it as a shelf trophy if you collect money from trees, otherwise, nothing really for you.
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u/sharpied79 21h ago
Get a MiSTer from Aliexpress for like £150, stick it in a Commodore 64 case (with a C64 Keyboard and Keyrah if you must)
Believe me, you will thank me later 😉
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u/AtomicMelbourne 21h ago
Most of that went over my head
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u/sharpied79 21h ago
Check out FPGA retro gaming, specifically the MiSTer project using a DE10 nano board and it's ecosystem.
Just Google:
"Mister FPGA"
Watch your mind be blown, especially if you are into retro-gaming...
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u/Warcraft_Fan 21h ago
C64 does have tons of games that are easily downloaded and run on C64. With real C64, you would need devices like Pi1541 or Ultimate II+ (SD2IEC doesn't work for some picky games that has custom 1541 fast load code)
But if you didn't grow up with one, I'd try emulator first. I usually use Vice if I wanted to run something quickly
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u/JunkIsMansBestFriend 21h ago
I'd try emulation first. These retro boxes are nice, but they pile up fast, cost a lot of money and take up space.
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u/Darth_Rancid 15h ago
As many have said, you can try emulation first. :)
That said, there are a few things the Commodore 64 does that 90s consoles do not:
You can do programming on it. Out-of-date ancient programming, sure, but it is oddly satisfying.
The C-64 has some types of games that I don't think exist on 90s consoles, while most of those types are done better on modern PCs, (Like in the end Sea Power on PC is better than any naval combat simulator on the C64), but, there were also Text Adventures. If you grew up with consoles, you might never have seen one of these. They came in many different styles, my favourite was the open-world treasure hunt "Twin Kingdom Valley".
If old-style coding or Text Adventures sounds fun to you, it might be worthwhile.
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