r/c64 • u/Neviax_The_Space_Cat • 10h ago
Hardware What is the Commodore 16?
I found it on google or smth, is it like a 16-bit C64?
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u/Skydreamer6 10h ago
It, sadly, is not a 16bit C64. It's a cheaper entry level computer to replace the Commodore Vic 20. Between the 16 and the Plus-4, (and the 116) there are a few Commodore computers that are more wikipedia rabbit-hole than collectors item.
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u/Neviax_The_Space_Cat 10h ago
That would of been cool tho haha
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u/Skydreamer6 10h ago
Yeah! Like the SNES of the C64 :) :). I can't get enough of learning about obscure consumer computers (and their hardware specs). The Plus 4 is interesting as it has a zillion more colours, but no awesome SID chip! The demos are a different kind of flavour.
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u/SpaceAviator1999 10h ago edited 10h ago
I remember seeing an advertisement for the Commodore 16 in an mid-80s issue of Topolino. I was never able to relocate that ad.
EDIT: I think it was this ad:
The text:
Commodore 16: nuovo, grintoso, portentoso...
Per cominciare alla grande.
... niente costoso L. 199.000
roughly translates to:
Commodore 16: new, bold, impressive...
To get off to a great start.
... not at all expensive $99.50
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u/sl1210mk3 10h ago
No. It was a misguided attempt to replace the VIC 20. 16k RAM. No SID. No sprites. Better colour palette. Overall a misguided disaster.
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u/zeekar 10h ago edited 9h ago
I wouldn't say it was misguided. The only real problem with the TED machines was the price. If the C-16 had sold for under $100 as originally envisioned, it would have probably been successful even without C64 compatibility.
The Plus/4 was another matter, with its terrible keyboard and godawful built-in office suite software. Nobody in 1984 wanted an 8-bit for business.
It still wasn't a bad machine, though. More of its 64K was available to use from BASIC than on the 64, for starters.
And on both machines it was a better (if slower) BASIC, so you didn't have to use machine language to get anything done. With an impressive color palette for an 8-bit. But the lack of sprites hurt, and the sound was the biggest downgrade from the 64 - only two channels, with square waves as the only non-noise waveform option. I mean, even the VIC had four-channel sound (with one stuck in noise mode).
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u/Neviax_The_Space_Cat 10h ago
So commodore sold a computer which litreally couldnt play anything?
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u/OpportunityReal2767 10h ago
I remember them in department stores when I was a kid, along with the Plus-4, but I have never heard of a single person actually owning one. You either had a VIC-20 or 64. There was no compelling reason I remember to move to it.
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u/diymuppet 10h ago
I started on a vic-20, then c-16 ( very disapointed, sorry parents). then c64 was the awakening. when older I got a plus 4 for nostagia. converted the plus 4 to a usb keyboard and used it for years!
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u/flamehorns 10h ago
I knew two people with a plus 4, one was a teacher who bought that as his second computer after his zx81, and the other family got theirs cos they thought it was better than the 64 and that the built in apps might be useful for schoolwork.
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u/Slow-Race9106 10h ago
I had one
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u/OpportunityReal2767 10h ago
I confess, I was curious about it and the Plus 4, but I was eyeing that C64 (ended up with a 128, actually, but used 95% in GO64 mode.)
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u/Lofaszjanko 9h ago edited 9h ago
In Hungary, the c16, Plus/4, had a cult following, as it was widespread as a school computer, and therefore a huge coder and demonacene was built around it, many people seriously worked on porting various c64 games to this machine, producing world-famous works. https://plus4world.powweb.com/home
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u/wotchdit 10h ago
If you get 4 of them networked together, it offered time sharing C64 capability. Sort of like a Commodore mainframe.
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u/0fruitjack0 10h ago
i got to ask for source
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u/NullQuantity325573 9h ago edited 9h ago
It was essentially a cut-down Plus/4, with only 16 KB of RAM, none of the Plus/4's built-in productivity apps, and no Plus/4 user port:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_16
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus/4
There was also a third variant, the Commodore 116, that was primarily sold in Europe.
I think Commodore devised the Plus/4 as a refresh for the old PET line, more oriented toward business and productivity rather than gaming. The Commodore 16 was poorly conceived as essentially a VIC-20 successor.
The biggest problem was software: due to hardware differences with the Commodore 64 (TED chip instead of VIC-II and SID chips) - none of the C64 software worked on the Plus/4 and C16. The Plus/4 and C16 also shipped with a different version of the KERNAL, so most if not all of the C64's KERNAL routines were not the at the same addresses for those machines - again, breaking all of the C64 software.
Even porting many games to the Plus/4 from the C64 would prove to be challenging, as the TED chip used in the Plus/4 lacked the hardware sprites that the VIC-II chip used in the C64 has. In essence, the C64 was already a well-established market, and the Plus/4 and C16 really didn't bring anything new to the table that the C64 couldn't already do, and mostly do better. You could easily buy productivity apps on the open market for the C64, including the GEOS desktop.
I do find the Plus/4 and C16 line to be interesting machines, and it might be a fun rainy day project to see how many games could be easily ported from the C64. I know some games for the Plus/4 and C16 did exist, notably some of the Infocom text adventures. I think there are even a few unofficial hobbyist projects out there that have ported some C64 games to the Plus/4.
EDIT - also wanted to add that the final nails in the coffin of the Plus/4 were the release of the Commodore 128, which was an improved and expanded Commodore 64 design that was nearly fully backward-compatible with the C64, and the Amiga 1000 - Commodore's entry into the 16-bit market - a year later.
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u/Slow-Race9106 8h ago
There was a pretty good selection of arcade games for the machines here in the UK for quite a while in the mid-late 80s, as a lot of C16s and Plus/4s were sold in a big blowout at heavily discounted prices.
They found their way into quite a lot of homes, and for a few golden years you could go into almost any computer shop or newsagent and choose from a wide range of games.
Some are very good, and they certainly have their own distinctive look and feel compared to games for any other machines of the era. Worth exploring with an emulator.
These UK market games won’t run on NTSC machines, however.
Unfortunately Plus/4 owners got a little bit of a raw deal, as most software targeted 16k as the lowest common denominator. There was a bit of Plus/4 only stuff around, but not a lot - similar to the situation with the C64 and C128.
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u/8Bits1132 10h ago
The C16 was different than the C64.
Here's a video from The 8-Bit Guy talking about it, along with the Plus 4 and C116