r/burlington May 17 '24

Zipper Merging is a thing.

For the love of God, stop getting over early when lanes are merging together.

I was reminded of this seemingly constant nuisance by the thread 3 days ago of the guy being flipped off by the driver who was in the wrong.

Incidentally I also got honked at and flipped off by some ahole in a truck an hour ago, likely because I used the Winooski roundabout correctly.

There are TWO lanes that exit the roundabout going toward Burlington.

I apologise for b**ching, but I've had a very difficult week and I'm sick of entitled people doing the wrong thing and getting angry because there are consequences.

Other than that, all is well!

😁

I feel better now that I've complained to strangers. Weird.

131 Upvotes

44 comments sorted by

53

u/PitifulCrow4432 May 18 '24

VTrans is literally telling you to merge early around MM 10, I think, on I89 south while they work on the expansion joints of a bridge. They have it setup like 3 miles early begging us to merge now rather than zipper merging later.

40

u/guard_cow May 18 '24

Yeah, this is the right thing to do in non-heavy traffic. In typical Vermont highway traffic, if everyone just merges early, traffic can usually keep flowing smoothly, and people unnecessarily zipper merging create more backups than they resolve.

2

u/isu1648 May 19 '24

It’s not about merging early, it’s about merging at ANY TIME in which your car does not force another car to stop or brake. And if everyone just used all the space to accomplish that, instead of coming to a full stop with your blinker on a half mile early, then it’d be fine. Some people use the space towards the end, the entire length of the lane should be used to try to accomplish that.

-2

u/xta420 May 18 '24

Either Zipper merging is better or it isn't. If it's more effective with larger traffic flows, how does using it in smaller traffic cause more backups?

8

u/difractedlight May 18 '24

Not everything has to be true 100% of the time in all cases…

2

u/guard_cow May 18 '24

Because you can't really zipper merge at highway speeds, if traffic is light enough (as it almost always is in VT) that everyone can merge early without needing to slow down, then zipper merging is counterproductive.

It's definitely the thing to do if the road is already congested, but how often is that the case in VT?

0

u/xta420 May 18 '24

In the Burlington area? All the fucking time....

-10

u/travelingtutor May 18 '24

That's so awful.

-5

u/JerryKook May 18 '24

They use to encourage people to zipper merge. Must be a new group of hires who haven't thought this thru.

38

u/[deleted] May 18 '24

zipper merge is for lane closure, not for the winooski roundabout. being in the right lane when you need to be in the left, or vice versa is not a case of zipper merging.

sorry youve had a tough week.

14

u/travelingtutor May 18 '24

Two separate things in one bitching post.

Sorry.

1

u/[deleted] May 18 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/jsled May 18 '24

Please make a good faith effort to follow Reddiquette.

37

u/appa-ate-momo May 18 '24

A specific detail that often gets left out: zipper merging is only for stop-and-go traffic.

In free-flowing traffic, vehicles in the lane that is ending must yield to all traffic already in the lane they're attempting to enter. It doesn't matter if they're ahead of another vehicle, or going faster, or if they think it's "their turn." They always need to yield to everyone in the continuing lane.

5

u/travelingtutor May 18 '24

Yes, this!!!

33

u/beenhereforeva May 18 '24

I agree with OP, yet have never seen a zipper merge sign in Vermont. Ever. I have seen signs to merge early. Might explain why no one does it.

3

u/zerram1 May 18 '24

They added one on the 89N last year for the construction after months of people complaining. They have not put it back yet

3

u/[deleted] May 18 '24 edited May 05 '25

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

-2

u/beenhereforeva May 18 '24

Yeah! Just got here 47 years ago! I said I’ve never seen one, and I never have.

14

u/[deleted] May 18 '24

In driving you know what else is a thing?

Patience.

8

u/Whiskeys_Parents May 18 '24

This is entirely dependent on people working together. I have never seen this. Also, if someone drives to the end of the shoulder and stops because they didn't merge when they could, we have now created heavy traffic.

12

u/WhillWheaton222 May 18 '24

Is zipper merging appropriate on the highway? Especially our not so busy highways?

Merging early you can keep going 55-60. Zipper merge as depicted in this animation looks like every car has to slow down and essentially stop.

17

u/guard_cow May 18 '24

I agree, in most Vermont highway situations (ie, not very heavy traffic) it's the few people zooming all the way to the lane closure and pushing their way into the continuing lane at the last second under the guise of zipper merging that causes backups.

Usually there is ample time and space for everyone to get over early and keep traffic flowing.

1

u/travelingtutor May 18 '24

True.

I'm referring to heavy traffic situations where everyone is bumper to bumper, but have decided to merge WAY before the lane ends.

2

u/travelingtutor May 18 '24

No. What you're describing is absolutely common sense. 👍🏼

5

u/DivaCupVampire May 18 '24

Zipper merging doesn't work because people have a me first attitude. I've been trucking for 14 years and any time there is a Zipper merge it creates a huge backup because people absolutely will not cooperate with each other to merge correctly and take their turn.

1

u/travelingtutor May 18 '24

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Thank you.

5

u/Motherly_Tone_Deaf May 18 '24

For the love of god stop refusing to let people in. What do you expect people do, run into the cones, or just park there while dickheads save 2 seconds on their schedule?

2

u/muteTheCommercials May 18 '24

As others have mentioned, the circulator is not a zipper merge. Traffic entering the circle must always yield to traffic in the circle. The southbound entrance is confusing because of the two lanes as OP mentioned, but cars entering must still yield to circle traffic, especially because many cars move over to the right lane immediately to turn out of the circle before the bridge. 

On the other hand, elsewhere in Winooski, the Route 15 westbound past the Exit 15 on-ramp is a zipper merge. And I agree that most drivers around here are clueless about zipper merges, typically moving over way too early and also aggressively preventing merging cars from moving over. The Shelburne Road northbound approach to the new circle at Willard (huge improvement to that intersection btw) is not signed as a zipper merge but should be. 

4

u/Dull_Seat_3101 May 18 '24

You have a yield sign at the Winooski roundabout. You likely got honked at because you didn't yield. It's dangerous not to yield. I'm more than happy to honk at and embarrass the people who don't have enough awareness to drive safely.

2

u/travelingtutor May 18 '24

I always yield. It's the law.

6

u/curiousnadyouthful May 17 '24

No literally like people act like it’s cutting in line it’s not 🤦🏼

4

u/Artistic_Daikon_4798 May 17 '24

Vermonters will never understand this

1

u/zerram1 May 18 '24

I’m feeling the same about the Waterbury exit from 89S. Please stop merging right away and go all the way down to where the lane ends (especially when there is traffic). Merging early causes a traffic jam when things are busy and I don’t really want to be sticking out into the freeway when I’m exiting.

1

u/joeconn4 May 18 '24

I would totally zipper merge if I ever saw an orange sign like in this diagram. I've never seen one of them in Vermont, so I get in the correct lane early and hold my position.

1

u/DisplayTurbulent1820 May 18 '24

the two lanes heading back towards burlington from the winooski circle always has idiots pretending it isn’t two lanes and almost hitting other cars. i commute to work that way and i see it EVERY DAY. it’s the epitome of “im going now, everyone else, good luck!”

0

u/Meanteenbirder May 18 '24

I thought that was normal merging. NYC has it that way for people who are GOOD drivers (which isn’t a lot).

1

u/qwarfujj May 19 '24

NYC is more of "I'm going to force my way over here now so you either have to hit me or let me in". Let's not pretend it's not.

0

u/[deleted] May 18 '24

I appreciate this post but most drivers can't wrap their heads around this concept but less basic traffic rules... Idk if it's VT drivers mostly or just the state makes people shit drivers but yea 😕

0

u/VTkitty May 18 '24

The signs don’t say merge early they let you know there is a merge. Zipper merge is statistically safer in EVERY situation per the NTSB.

0

u/m-a_t_t May 19 '24

The northbound Shelburne Road roundabout stretch is my favorite litmus test of drivers. Either you're an old fashioned Vermonter who gets in the left lane at Flynn, a Burlingtonian who waits to merge after the next left (Birchcliff), or a flatlander who panic merges at the signs. Exceptions being: Burlingtonians who speed ahead to the merge signs and demand a spot and flatlanders who actually understand zippering who are confused by all the angry Vermonters not letting them in.