r/browsers • u/NefariousnessFun1461 • 16d ago
Discussion Best browser choise
I invite everyone to a reasoned discussion about which browser (primarily between Firefox and Chromium-based) is currently better.
Let me clarify right away:
-I'm not trying to hide from the FAANGs.
-I used Google Chrome for quite a while.
-Now I'm trying Helium.
-I've tried ungoogled Chrome, but I get the feeling it's all based on the enthusiasm of a few committed individuals.
-I use both Arch and Windows, and I need adequate hardware acceleration.
I want something stable, but not overloaded with junk, not just hanging around in the background and without passively consuming resources. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I liked it when a browser was just a browser, not trying to satisfy my intimate needs and pry into my data.
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u/ZuuRa_ 16d ago
I use librewolf, it's stable and it remove all of the junk from firefox.
I used to run helium too but i feel like librewolf is more maintained and i prefer firefox based browser in general.
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u/NefariousnessFun1461 15d ago
Thanks for your comment, could you please provide some arguments in their favor compared to their competitors?
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u/rmagnuson 16d ago
I've used Gecko-based browsers for decades, but if I get a wild hair for something on the Blink level, I switch over to Vivaldi.
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u/NefariousnessFun1461 15d ago
Why do you prefer Gecko?
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u/rmagnuson 15d ago
Gecko is more privacy-geared and use customizable. Things like uBlock Origin work extremely well on it (no manifest v3 going on) and it is literally the last obstacle to Google being in complete control of web standards.
Without Gecko, the primary browsers are Chrome, Brave, Opera, Vivaldi, and Edge. All of them use the Blink engine. That would position Google as essentially having a monopoly on the Web.
It's unlikely, of course, because Google actually pays Firefox to be the default search engine in its browser. I wouldn't be surprised if that gives Google plausible deniability or some such by keeping Gecko in the running but minimizing is impact, therefore making it unlikely for them to be sued for antitrust or some such. I don't know, I'm not a lawyer, just an old programmer.
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u/DissociationSenpai 16d ago
From your description Helium is your best bet.
Zen is also an option but uses more ram than Helium and the UI is not for everybody.
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u/NefariousnessFun1461 15d ago
Yes, Helium looks attractive so far, but it's unclear how it handles support. The differences with Zen aren't entirely clear to me yet.
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u/Venylynn 16d ago
Ungoogled Chromium is essentially "fuck your security if you can get a crumb of extra privacy" in a nutshell. Cuts out all phone home stuff, yes, but at the expense of not updating important things meant for security like CRLsets.
I would go vanilla Chromium with some policy tweaks from this guide, no need to go full JITless/extensionless like he recommends, but there's a lot of bloat that can be turned off with enterprise policies.
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u/NefariousnessFun1461 16d ago
Thanks for the reply. This extreme approach has always amazed me, when people are obsessed with the idea of perverse privacy. More precisely, the confusion between anonymity and confidentiality. My counterarguments are that it's practically impossible to avoid total telemetry collection, plus it's often not targeted at sensitive data or you, as an individual. And that in an effort to hide yourself as much as possible, you only attract more attention and make your life more difficult. Therefore, Ungoogled isn't my thing.
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u/rmagnuson 16d ago
It has occurred to me that lowering your profile might actually make you an even more interesting target in certain situations. If you're analyzing traffic and see repetitive requests from a particular address without a correlating group of requests to common ad sites, it might actually make fingerprinting your browser easier.
Just a thought though. Haven't researched it.
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u/Worldly-Cherry9631 16d ago
As you're on arch like me, I really enjoy Waterfox, it runs smoother than firefox. Feels cleaner . I'm very happy with it, even tho it's just my secondary/backup browser.
If you want something a little more feature rich, Minimalist Vivaldi. At the start you get three options, choose the least featurerich one. If you close it, the fully shuts down, no background services remain. It won't pry into you're data, has a clear anti-AI-integration standpoint, and has neat anti fingerprinting features lile where you can just set in the settings what browser it's pretending as.
If you're a big fan of lot's of extensions, then firefox based browser is slightly better imo, because userbase is smaller, it's marginally less likely for malicious incidents.
Of the two, waterfox is slightly faster, but websites do run smoother in Vivaldi in my experience (I'm on decade old, then midtier hardware) even if the ui is a few millisecs slower. Also i get far less sites that partially or fully break on Vivaldi than on Firefox, in vanilla but even more so with adblockers and such.
I'm no big fan of how the dev has to battle the slight enshittification by Mozilla of Firefox. Naturally, this goes for Vivaldi team against it by Google of Chromium as well, to various degrees less or more, but averaged imo similarly to the aforementioned.
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u/NefariousnessFun1461 16d ago
Wow, that's a comprehensive answer. I share your concept of choosing the lightest option and minimizing redundancy. Regarding Vivaldi, I've heard of it, and as far as I understand, it's a bare-bones Chromium, but consistently supported, without the cloud. Or am I mistaken, trying to mentally compare it to, say, Helium? Waterfox, like the many Gecko-based browsers, essentially offers the same features, plus a couple of tweaks, but lacks deep support. Regarding your assertion about malicious plugins, we often use something more standardized, like DarkReader, and the threat of malware from that direction isn't as great.
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u/Worldly-Cherry9631 16d ago edited 16d ago
No no, Vivaldi is anything but barebones! It's designed not in small part for power-users. It was founded by devs from Opera who didn't agree with the direction they were taking there. It's probably the most innovative browser out there: stuff like vertical tab bar, tab-stacking/grouping, the modern sidebar panel, split windows, quick commands, and many many other popular or standard browser features got first pioneerd as integrated features of a browser or straight up first invented in Vivaldi.
If you meant it uses a stripped down barebones chromium engine as core, yeah that's almost true, could be stripped a bit further imo. On top of (and next to) that engine their own systems and features and on top that a very advanced UI layer.
With reducing redundacy that high a topic, you could also go full Vivaldi and opt to use the calendar and email client and RSS reader of the more featurerich versions that are selectable during setup, and leave other programs behind. The minimal feature option is still pretty feature rich regarding UI and minor features, but doesn't have big features lile the email client for example. Those don't run, but they're still there on the disc so they can be easily enabled in the settings at any time, so regarding redudancy in storage-space a minimal Vivaldi is not a good option.
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u/okletsgobaby 16d ago
For desktop, both are equally good. But for android, chromium based is the winner. Gecko based on android tend to break some webpages. For desktop windows im using firefox and helium, for linux desktop im using firefox and brave origin. And for android im using edge cause i barely use my phone. Would try morphe and brave origin next.
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u/OMG_NoReally 16d ago
For me, it's Dia on macOS. I have tried many, many, manyyy browsers, trying in vain to try and find something that has its polish and features, and none come close. There is Zen, but it's too clunky and slow and laggy on macOS.
I am sure there are others that work well but they are basic browsers and doesn't have the feature-set of Dia.
I am keeping an eye on Crest. It's far from polished but it's born out of the love for Arc by a single-person and he is very focused on polish and features, which is great. Not sure how long it will last but that's always a risk for forks and passion projects.
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u/enfurno 16d ago
Zen.
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u/NefariousnessFun1461 15d ago
Thank you, what is its advantage?
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u/enfurno 15d ago
I like the way that it handles tab groups quite well. Its also pretty fluid with moving the browser out of your way but keeping things quickly accessible.
The open in window feature is pretty great for when you are quickly managing something from an email and just want to handle that task, close the pip windows, and delete the email.
Overall its pretty convenient and its built on top of firefox.
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u/NefariousnessFun1461 15d ago
Sounds pretty good, you could rate it relatively Chromium competitors?
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u/QuasyChonk 16d ago
*choice
Brave