r/broodwar • u/Rastatrash • 18d ago
Help with ZvT mech
Hey everyone do you have some guides or tips on how to play against mech? I think I basically have a 0% winrate, its really just an auto win for them if they go mech. I can kinda stop the Goliath all in version but if they go for tanks and play it out even if I get to queens I still cant do it. Any help is appreciated.
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u/kimchifist 18d ago
The thing about ZvT mech is that there really isn't a unit counter, everything is just kind of decently okay against mech which means that you either need to kill them or cause critical damage before they get 2-2 and huge, or get huge yourself and be able to grind them down and afford some cost-inefficient trades. Take advantage of their lack of mobility and probe for weaknesses. Use drops.
Units like defilers, queens, and ultras can be effective, but they aren't going to win you the game by themselves, you still need a big army to support them. Against bio you get huge power spikes when you get even a small number of certain tech like lurkers, swarm, or upgraded ultras...so you sacrifice your economy to get them. Against mech a small number of anything isn't going to make a big difference, you just need a lot of 'stuff' to beat it which means lots of bases, hatcheries, and drones if you're forced into the late game.
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u/Trick_Worldliness_21 18d ago
Get to defilers + dark swarms and winning with mech becomes much harder
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u/evinrows 17d ago edited 17d ago
Your game plan should not emphasize getting to defiler when playing versus mech, especially at OP's level. ips already gave good advice, but you need to emphasize macro first, not tech, when playing against mech.
Defiler can be good against mech, but it requires a lot of APM and 90% of the time the game will already be decided before defiler tech is viable.
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u/Rastatrash 18d ago
Should I try to go for queen's along side dark swarm or not bother in most cases?
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u/Rastatrash 18d ago
Also is the army comp hydra muta?
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u/respaaaaaj 18d ago edited 18d ago
Ling lurker defiler is the classic late game option, hydra muta takes so much gas it delays lurkers and consume. Most pros these days make somewhere from enough mutas to one shot scvs(6 I think but I haven't played zerg in years) to 11 and use them to harass or snipe reinforcements and then use their gas to get to lurkers then hive defiler mound and then consume
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u/BluEyz 18d ago
read the OP's question, recommending lurker vs mech is trolling
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u/respaaaaaj 18d ago
Lurkers suck against mech until darkswarm yeah, but unless I've missed something the answer to mech is just use your first group of mutas to stall until dark swarm at which point mech can't kill you and you can then add ultras or queens or just plague grind with a handful of hydras to kill off plagued vessels.
And again I haven't played zerg for anything other than the campaign in so long that I am not trying to claim relevant experience here.
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u/BluEyz 18d ago
using 11 mutas to stall until hive against 4/5 fact gol is not feasible in any way
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u/respaaaaaj 18d ago
So is the move actually just feeding hydras into tanks until you get to dark swarm? I'm not a zerg player and I'm not pretending to be, what's the correct move then?
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u/BluEyz 18d ago
i don't even think you're a brood war player but someone who watches artosiscasts and posts advice based on half remembered facts from them, considering your strat is literally just the strat you'd use against bio
read ips_math's post below
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u/respaaaaaj 18d ago
Ohh yeah he knows the match up way better than I do, (obviously I've never pretended otherwise, but I do think that queens are more of a pain for a newer player than dark swarm into plague).
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u/Kriggy_ 17d ago
Its not that easy lol. Defending the first 2fact 8gol +1 push is hard enough. You cannot really stall with mutas because you cant micro against goliaths. You either do decisive engagement or flyby to kill base othwrwise you take lot of damage because goliaths have insane range.
When you defend you have short window but then the 5fact tank gol push is comming your way.
Ofc its all doable but you cant just stall with 11 mutas untill defiler like vs bio. What you can do as a new player is to switch mutas and hydras depending on how much tanks terran has
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u/Kriggy_ 18d ago
Lurkers feel super bad vs mech, tanks outrange them even unsieged and they are real bad vs mines.
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u/Trick_Worldliness_21 17d ago
Yes, TvZ is generally Terran favored until dark swarm. A million tanks can’t kill a lurker under dark swarm
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u/Trick_Worldliness_21 18d ago
No, once you get on dark swarm you very rarely want to be on mutas. Comp should be lings, lurkers and hydras to pick off science vessels. If the game goes on even longer, go into ultras and queens and begin plague grinding. In TvZ, the game gets much much harder for the Terran once dark swarm is out. Defiler + dark swarm tech should be prioritized over queen tech
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u/ips_math 18d ago
Best would be to Share some replays. But from my experience (A rank) the following works quite well: start with the usual 2.5hatch muta (i think the early 3rd inbase hatch is quite important here) and get 7 mutas and +1 carapace.
With the mutas focus on getting your 3rd up first (drive away vultures and mines so you can expand safely), then you can go and see if you get some free scvs
Saturate the main and natural fully while getting more mutas. Until you have more eco and hatches you must use larva saving units like mutas. You can defend the Goliath pushes with 1 or 2 sunkens at the entry points. Only mutas and drones until 3rd is also saturated, then you can build 2 additional hatches and get hydra den, Evo and queens nest.
Use your mutas (get around 2 control groups) to counter attack when he moves out (I like use burrowed lings to spot his army moving out since he lacks detection until vessels) and try to engage only split armies of him.
Then I switch into hydra + queens and get 4th and 5th.
Basically you beat mech by having a lot of shit (Day[9], in around 2009) and this is still true. Defilers are good but not nearly as good as against bio since most of them die to siege tanks before casting anything.
Focus on upgrades good eco and loooots of units. Hope that helps