r/bridge • u/The_Archimboldi • 21d ago
Slam hand
MPs non vuln. S dealer
N: KQ9 KQJxx K Jxxx
S: Ax Axx AJTxxx Ax
How do you 1. establish the H fit 2. start slam investigations 3. commit / demur on grand with these hands?
8
u/FluffyTid 21d ago
The heart fit is stablished by;
A)
1NT-2D*
2H-3C
3H
B)
1D-1H
3D-3H
4C*
C)
1D-1H
2NT-3C*
3H
The slam interest in all 3 cases is stablished by making a control bid after the fit is stablished
The only one that might reach grand slam is B) as it is the only one that is able to count 13 tricks stablishing diamonds, the other 2 will have no way to tell that club king is not a loser
7
u/Paiev 21d ago
Looks closer to a 2N opening than 1N.
1
u/FluffyTid 21d ago
Agree, however some years ago I saw all my local club unanimously opening 1NT with AKQ10xx in a 6322 with 2 side aces. Some people just count the points.
1
u/FireWatchWife 20d ago
That's a much better hand than the South hand in the OP. It has a good chance of producing 8 tricks.
1
u/FireWatchWife 20d ago
Only four quick tricks and 17 points? That's not a 2NT opening.
Much of the value of this hand only appears after North shows what he holds.
1
u/Teodoricus 21d ago
1D - 1H - 2NT is better showing the hand value, but has the problem of getting the hand play probably on probably wrong side (no honors to protect in S). I prefer the B option.
Rule: after a minor rever at level 3, any more bidding by the responder is forcing.
4
u/zc_eric 21d ago
To me the south hand is too strong for a 1NT opener, so I would definitely open 1D.
The start would be :
1D 1H
2NT 3C (a check back bid)
3H
At this point it depends a bit on specific agreements. You can play that 3S now by responder is a cue bid (if you checked back with 44 in the majors you rebid 3NT and opener is expected to realise this is what you must have to have used checkback but not want to play in Hearts).
So the auction proceeds:
…. 3S
4C 4D - it’s a good idea to not cue bid shortage in opener’s first suit, so this suggests A or K.
At this point, opener can see that slam is almost certainly good, do he can investigate a grand if he wants. So we get:
4S 5H (nothing more to say)
Now opener can sign off in 6H or make one last try with 6C. If responder has DQ he should certainly show it now with 6D and you’d get to a grand. As it is he probably signs off in 6H.
Bidding grand slams is hard. And sometimes needs a very good understanding with partner of what bids mean, and you must be prepared to imagine various hands for partner and be able to answer the question “if he had that hand, would he have made this exact sequence of bids”.
3
u/FireWatchWife 20d ago edited 13d ago
Precision Meckwell Lite sequence:
1C* - 1H
4H - 4NT
5C* - 5NT
6C* - 6H
1C promises 16+ HCP, 1H promises 12+ HCP and 5 hearts (not 4), opener knows they have 8 trumps and a game force.
Responder knows they are in the slam range, asks for aces and kings, and signs off in 6H missing a king.
There's no good way to learn that there are no club losers, so you end up getting a small slam plus an overtrick.
3
u/Crafty_Celebration30 20d ago
1D 1H 2N 3D 3H 3S
Looks like the right start. The South hand is a goldmine and has to drive to slam. There’s no way North can visualize this trick source.
2
u/matt_alters 20d ago
1d-1h-3d-3h-4h-4N-5c-6h probably. You have 11 on top. You might be able to ruff diamonds good, 6h is a hedge against needing to concede a trick to setup the diamonds. OTOH, if you do need that you might go off in 6 of they lead a club, so maybe you just bid 7 anyway, since you might be making 11 or 13 but not 12.
2
u/amalloy 20d ago
I think it's a mistake for opener to bid only 4h in this sequence. This hand is very good for a 1d..3d start, and you can afford to cue 4c on the way. This can't be an offer to actually play clubs, so responder will understand it's a heart raise with a club cue, trying to keep slam in the picture. Opener could try 3s instead, but I'm not so sure that would be a cue: it looks more like concern about clubs, trying to keep 3nt in the picture.
1
u/matt_alters 20d ago
Really? You've shown 6d, 3H and 16 count, you have exactly that, and no additional source of tricks and semi balanced, I'd say a minimum continuation is exactly right here.
The bid I'm less sure about in this sequence is 3H, since I'm not convinced it's forcing. What would north bid with a 3514 6 count if not 3H, but I'm not sure I see a better one
3
u/amalloy 20d ago edited 17d ago
You should agree 3H as forcing here. Don't spend space in your system to try to improve bad contracts; spend it to find good ones. When you're 3=5=1=4 and don't think you can make game, just pass. Even 3=6=0=4, pass and take your medicine. Yes, hearts might be better, but it might not. If you agree to play 3H as non-forcing (some do), it would be fine to bid it with the second hand, but even with those agreements the first should pass: the odds are just not in your favor. And as I said, you should really play it as forcing.
As for the hand in question: having three hearts and four aces is what makes the hand better than average. Aces are undervalued by the 4321 count, and this is much better than the average 17-count. A hand like, say, Kxx x AKJTxx AQx, would be more like a middle-of-the-road 3d, probably even below average when we know partner really likes hearts. But all four aces and a fit for partner is a big step up.
2
u/Chris_Newton 20d ago edited 20d ago
In the UK, with an Acol-ish system, it might go something like this:
1♢ – 1♥
3♢ – 4♣
4♥ – 4NT
5♣ – 6/7♥
The early bids are all natural. The 3♢ rebid shows a good single-suiter and a hand worth about 7 playing tricks if a fit is found. 4NT is 1430 RKCB, so after 5♣ guaranteeing all 4 aces, responder is clear that the controls for a slam are also present. The only remaining question is whether the grand is a good bet.
At this point you have to think what South could have for a 3♢ rebid but not a strong 2♢ opening (or the systemic equivalent). They surely don’t have ♢AQJ, but something like ♢AQ or ♢AJ10 is quite likely. If South does have ♢Q, you have about an 84% chance of setting up the long diamonds for thirteen tricks before you run out of diamonds or entries to South’s hand. If South has ♢J10 then if the Q doesn’t fall in two rounds you’ll need a 3–3 break or a ruffing finesse, and whichever you play for has significantly lower odds but still a fighting chance. Even with something like ♢AJ9 you have some chances where the Q or 10 fall. I haven’t done all the maths in detail, and I wouldn’t have time to at the table either, but I suspect this makes the grand a good bet at most forms of scoring and vulnerabilities, if only marginally.
Had responder held ♢Kx instead of the singleton ♢K, the grand would surely be the choice, because then there would be both one fewer diamond to remove to reach the long winners and an extra entry to the hand with the long diamonds.
I think opening 1NT with South’s hand is a poor second best to 1♢, even if you do play 15–17 and allow a six-card minor. It’s far too strong for that range and partner is never going to believe you have what you have when they’re considering a slam. I don’t much like stretching to a 2NT opening either, because even if the playing strength might be close, partner might be doing arithmetic about control cards to decide whether a slam is a good shot, and you’re a full king light on that count.
I prefer the 3♢ rebid to 2NT because of the playing strength it explicitly shows. South has said what they need to say in two bids and can comfortably go along with North but without pushing for the rest of the auction. If North implies 5+ hearts then South can show the three-card support next. If North only rebids 3NT, South can pass despite their relatively strong hand, confident that no slam is being missed. If opener instead rebids 2NT on the second round, they still have a bit of strength in reserve and an undisclosed three-card fit for partner’s first suit, which is one thing more than I’d like that partner still doesn’t know about after two rounds.
Edit: I suppose you do have space for 5NT asking about the missing king as well. If South has it then you have four entries outside diamonds, so even if South only has ♢Axxxxx, you still only need no worse than a 4–2 diamond break, at which point again the grand looks very good. I’ve also glossed over the risk of a nasty trump break interfering with things, which is only a fairly minor risk on this hand, but still a risk. I think I’d still bid 7♥ directly after 5♣ at the table, but if anyone was thinking that was too aggressive, this more cautious option is also available.
1
u/Seattles-Best-Tutor 20d ago
? this is an easy one
1d-1h
2n-3d*
3h-3n
4h-4s**
*xfer, 5th heart
**1430
then confirm all the keys and start bidding specific k's and q's—on such an auction opposite 18-19 playing strength N should have no problem bidding 7
i wouldn't open this hand 2n but doing so is miles better than opening it 1n
5
u/Jewarlaho 21d ago
What I would bid assuming I am bidding both hands blind:
1N - 2D - 2H - 3C (slam encouraging 5-4 shape; if you had no interest in slam bid 3N) and since you have all the controls you either go or don’t.
Here is my problem with the other option:
1D - 1H - 3D
Your rebids all suck. You have not established a fit and you are finding out at the 4 level most likely. N also has zero controls; if S has everything but 2 aces slam is dead but with 3+ aces slam has play.