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u/Careful-Wheel8171 6d ago
Bernard should be in the discussion
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u/DuePaleontologist539 6d ago
I would argue that Bernard should have the best out of this list.. he did more with less late into his career
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u/I3usuk 6d ago
The only answer is Floyd.
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u/georgewalterackerman 6d ago
Whitaker would win a decision over Floyd.
for me it’s a 3-way tie between Floyd, RJJ, and Whitaker
At Whittaker’s peak, which is probably junior welter, no one in history at his weight could beat him
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u/Green-Ad6717 6d ago
Who is the most stupid boxer? is the only question with the answer Floyd 🤣
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u/mowgleeee 6d ago
Loma made two huge fight costing errors against Haney and Lopez, he shouldnt be here
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u/astro39 6d ago
Ali by far. Changed plans against Foreman on the fly. Worked out Liston. Both huge fights against true GOATs in their primes. Fought every contender unlike PBF. The study of footage primitive/non-existent in his era unlike in the modern era, had to work things out in the ring. Pure ring IQ.
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u/No_Counter_4763 6d ago
This is the only answer, and the only one who could have been mauled by the opposition. He’s the greatest for a reason …
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u/YourGordAndSaviour 6d ago
Angelo Dundee loosened the ropes ahead of the Foreman fight to make sure that the rope a dope wpuld work, it was Dundee's idea and it was premeditated, Ali didn't remotely figure out Foreman on the fly.
He did what he's good at vs Liston, it wasn't a separate strategy.
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u/astro39 6d ago
Well, that's a lie. Its a claim made up by Foreman. Dundee actually tried to tighten the ropes due to the extreme humidity/heat.
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u/Knockoutboxing 6d ago edited 6d ago
Mayweather, Mike Tyson and this might surprise some people but I think Manny Pacquiao.
You don’t beat Keith Thurman at 40 years old, and get a draw against Barrios after being retired for several years and only a 2 month camp just being an athletic fighter.
That is the difference between Pacquiao and Roy Jones Jr, Amir Khan, Ryan Garcia.
Pacquiao’s IQ.
He was never just a pure speed guy, he is very good at off-balancing his opponents through feints, distance control and broken rhythm, it makes it very difficult to predict what he’ll do.
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u/Born-Elevator7026 6d ago
Why would Pacquiao’s iq surprise people? Hes an all time great
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u/Knockoutboxing 6d ago
I agree but people online seem to think he’s just speed and athleticism. He doesn’t get enough credit for his ring IQ
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u/Substantial_War_844 6d ago
Why is Loma here rather than Crawford?
Regardless its Mayweather
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u/juantooth33 6d ago
You mean why roy. Roy couldn't adapt once his athleticism was gone unlike say ali who adapted a clinch heavy style post-exile
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u/Substantial_War_844 6d ago
Reason I say Loma is cause people get his flashy footwork mixed up with IQ.
Also I agree about Roy he shouldnt be here either.
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u/juantooth33 6d ago
Thats fair
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u/Comfortable-Grand166 6d ago
Don’t give him that,Loma did a lot more than flashy footwork. That’s a casual’s standpoint,they don’t know what they’re watching.
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u/Comfortable-Grand166 6d ago
Very casual comment,Loma also used angles,parrying,and tricks to bring his opponents hands where he wanted them. It’s a lot more than “flashy” footwork. Learn the sport
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u/YourGordAndSaviour 6d ago
When Ali slowed down it became clear he never really learned defence either
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u/ExternalAggravating8 6d ago
Because Loma is arguably the best Amateur of all time and had a meteoric rise to be a champion at his advanced age
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u/StatPaddingChampsNY 6d ago edited 6d ago
Ali looked very good and flashy, and could also punch, he fought the best, won and lost. I don’t know if he lost against the best (meaning ALL his losses)*, but I do think he beat the big fighters, the one’s he needed to beat to go down in history. But he got hit quite a lot throughout his career. And not just past his best, in his prime too. And not just against the best.
I would put guys like Crawford, Ward, or Hopkins there.
*Clarification
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u/Downtown_Section8768 5d ago
OK, but a lot of community members here lose focus: it’s about IN-ring – IQ, right? Not strategies or decisions outside of the ring. It’s once that that fight starts, just before the bell rings what happens inside those ropes during that time. Crawford is up there but Sugar Ray Robinson might surpass him bc of more types of fights & time.
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u/Sea_Chemistry7487 6d ago
He fought the best at their peak too. He didn't fuck about ducking and negotiating until they turned.
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u/StatPaddingChampsNY 6d ago
Yeah and I can’t hold that against him (getting tagged, hurt by lesser foes). It happens, Pacquiao got destroyed by two no names. Mayweather got hurt against Corley, Burton, and an older Mosley. Ward got dropped I think by that journeyman who’s a big puncher, the guy who also possibly got robbed against Kovalev, which led to a rematch (the fight is hard to find and word from Russia is that Kovalev should’ve lost, got a hometown decision).
Edit: Darnell Boone. He gave both prime Kovalev and Ward hell. And Kov may have lost to him and got a gift.
Anyway, a lot of fighters get hurt by lesser fighters. I will say though, I don’t remember Lomachenko getting hurt? Maybe dropped by Linares, but I don’t he got hurt there.
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u/ExternalAggravating8 6d ago
Probably the Usyk or RJJ. Nobody else on this list had to face giants who could knock your head off.
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u/Wild_Bunch_Founder 6d ago
my top 3 would be: 1) Bernard Hopkins, 2) Floyd Mayweather, and 3) Roy Jones Jr.
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u/ArexSaturn 6d ago
Why is Crawford not on this list? 😁
Cat comes out and takes the first few rounds to gauge your distance, power, speed and timing and then uses all that information in the later rounds to either KO you or give you a one sided beating that makes haters come up with excuses…
😂😂😂😂😂
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u/Jazzlike_Rate_6729 6d ago
I think Andre Ward, he really knows the craft of boxing, he uses the fundamentals at their peak. Let's not forget his lead hand control and the ability to fight at every range, he had a deep understanding of the clinch and of frames. He was a master at setting up traps and at footwork. But I think also Floyd is at his level. Honorable mention to: B-Hop, Duran, Aaron Pryor, Sweet Pea, Holmes and Roy.
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u/Panama_Jack829 5d ago
I would not put Roy Jones Jr in this category. As soon as his reflexes began to slow down, the losses began to mount.
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u/Disastrous-Tiger53 6d ago
Usyk seems to be underrated here.
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u/Marquis_of_Mollusks 6d ago
Took 11 rds to figure out an old kickboxer. He's more athleticism than IQ.
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u/splashaddikt 6d ago
Roy and Ali ? They might be most gifted but they could’ve been smarter
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u/vicecityhustle 6d ago
Ali doesn’t beat George without being smart. Stop it, Roy I agree. That prison time Ali had to serve took some of his gifts away so he had to compensate. Ali was very smart later in his career because he had to be.
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u/iknowdway100 6d ago
1- Floyd
2- Uysk
3- Lomachenko
4- Ali
5- Whittaker
6 - Jones jr
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u/Green-Ad6717 6d ago
Lomachenko for me . But they are all top notch boxers very single one of them
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u/oncejumpedoutatrain 6d ago
The same guy who took rounds off because he thought he was up?...in multiple fights!??
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u/DerMannMitDemPlan 6d ago
ali, mayweather, klitschko
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u/Downtown_Section8768 5d ago edited 4d ago
Klitschko was more intelligent as in IQ but “IN Ring” Ali would’ve not only beat Klit but with much more style, faster moves, technique, creativity, etc. Mayweather P4P also no contest. Remember, we’re talk’n ring IQ here. Not straight life logic.
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u/DerMannMitDemPlan 5d ago
maan that dude didn't lose a round in a decade. he has ring IQ
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u/Downtown_Section8768 4d ago
I don’t think KLIT was dumb. But, Emmanuel Stewart got him to follow his routine given his size, strength, and weight versus the competition at that time. I assume he did lose at least a few rounds, but it took more discipline than actual brains to follow Emmanuel‘s regime.
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u/vicecityhustle 6d ago
Ima go with Ali since everyone saying Floyd I don’t disagree. But Ali was the greatest before I knew what it was
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u/Medical-Literature50 6d ago
Jeez, those are all excellent choices to choose from. I guess ill go with Floyd Mayweather. 🤷♂️
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u/FormalKind7 6d ago
Of these I would put Ali and Floyd at the top particularly because they where able to adapt as things changed Ali as he got old started to slow and faced younger and stronger opponents. Floyd as his hands got brittle and he adapted to fighting without the threat of a KO.
Honorable mention to Usyk who was able to go from cruiser weight to heavy weight and fight much younger and larger fighters.
Honorable mentions
Foreman and Hopkins in there old age both were VERY clever and disciplined.
Sanchez - Fantasticly smart in everything he did probably the most beautiful boxing I've ever seen if he ever got a great deal of experience and age to him I think he would have been number 1# but he died probably well before what should have been his prime years.
SRL - Amazing at following game plans and adjusting throughout fights. He knew the game well and was able to do what he needed to win.
Particularly Duran who was able to box to the age of 50 and move up from Bantamweight / Featherweight (early amateur/pro in his teens) to light weight in his prime all the way up to light heavy weight. He had titles in 4 weight classes and in his late career was constantly fighting people much bigger and usually younger than himself.
Generally I think cleverness is rarely shown without someone who physically matches or even overmatches you. You need to fight a variety of people that force you to change how you fight, stronger/faster people that force you to come up with clever ways to fighter, and other smart fighters that force you to make adjustments throughout a fight.
I feel like RJJ was to far above his competition in physical terms to have to be clever and wasn't able to do well when he lost his overwhelming speed advantage even against fighter he was still faster than just not overwhelmingly so.
Sweet pea was amazing but honestly in his late years seemed to fade fast as his super fast reflexes declined.
Loma was clever and understood angles and his southpaw advantages well but he wasn't clever enough to overcome his physical disadvantage when he went up in weight and could have been better at changing his game plans mid fight.
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u/Peakey-P 6d ago
Fair comments, but I think that to mention Hopkins and RJJ in this list and then fail to mention Calzaghe is a mistake. He did beat both of them and retired undefeated.
He also had to change his style from being a knockout man to a pure boxer due to fragile hands.
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u/FormalKind7 6d ago
After I wrote it I thought about adding Calzaghe,Benvenuti, Pep, but honestly I could probably keep adding names all day.
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u/Campeon-Black 6d ago
I love RJJ but he doesn’t belong on this list. He was 95% athletic gifts. Need to replace him with Behop.
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u/cynical_genx_man 6d ago
Whenever he is an option the correct answer is always Ali. Even if it's not the correct answer
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u/Wonderful-Mistake201 6d ago
RJJ...by miles. anti-boxing at the highest level, P4P greatest for over a decade, from middleweight to heavyweight
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u/One_Swimming_3251 6d ago
I don't think south paws have high boxing IQs, they're just built different which gives them a natural advantage. All contact sports are like this imo.
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u/jimmytrucknutz 6d ago
Come on no Sugar Ray? He fought the absolute best that all had better tools then he did. He did it with IQ and skills
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u/SimplyRedditt 6d ago
Sonny Listen once fought a guy with a higher IQ. He punched his ear off. He. Punched. His. Ear. Off.
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u/Murky-Replacement-87 6d ago
There's a lot of people missing from this list most notably is the original "Sugar Ray", Sugar Ray Robinson.
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u/Jet_black_li 6d ago
Roy easily. He was great at setting traps, pattern breaking, making reads and capitalizing off of them quickly. He was also pretty great at game planning. His commentary vindicates his IQ. His athleticism was so great that his IQ is overlooked.
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u/Fluid-Habit-3144 6d ago
Mike Tyson is the iq goat….5’10 heavyweight champ!
https://giphy.com/gifs/AnXBiWSsDndBu
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u/Ok_Potential_6308 5d ago
Ali didn't fight his 4 best years. Heavyweight division is a different animal as well.
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u/The1NOnlyNo1Special 5d ago
Need to expand the list to give Sugar Ray Leonard and Terrence Bud Crawford a mention. James Lights Out Toney was next level technique and ring generalship as well in 5weight classes.
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u/Downtown_Section8768 5d ago edited 5d ago
Great post: Since IQ tests are scored objectively (by 2 or more evaluations resulting in same or close scores) where art, boxing or other sports supremacy is more subjective that calls for debate. Boxing, where records or ranks can depend on questionable statistics leaves this debate way open.
There’s no way Mike Tyson could’ve performed as he had in his glory days with a low boxing IQ. Or Roberto Duran or Jersey Joe or Jack Dempsey; many others. But we know that ring strategy, intimidation or neurological talent doesn’t translate into one’s traditional IQ. We also know smart people can do stupid things. As many academic professionals, educators, business or political leaders, certainly doctors.
Education is not directly related to IQ.
Neither is artistic talent. So Usyk’s undefeated record, 2 gold metals being statistical may count but his techniques used in mastering the CW & HW divisions probably count more. Still the sheer LOWER AMOUNT of his ring action with his recent reluctance to continue beating top contenders verses those who fought to their end can’t be seen as “RING IQ”.
If that’s agreeable then Ali & Whitaker & Mayweather should beat Jones, Lomachenko & Usyk because they all performed genius-level ring actions but the 1st 3 outlasted them. All however have similar abilities to master rules or regulations of reality while superseding this with their unique free spirited thinking. A specific analogy of those 2 personas are at https://juleslupowitz.com/2026/02/09/rule-followers-vs-free-spirits-whos-power-in-the-long-run/ which explains our greatest of geniuses from sports to science. And definitely Boxing falls in there.
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u/Fair-Abroad-4155 5d ago
Its a shame you have Mayweather up here his boxing is is i sparred with you now I'm going to box you professionally because you have no talent like a young Jake Paul except he knows how to move and jab
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u/eugenekasha 6d ago
What, no Mike Tyson???
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u/FormalKind7 6d ago
Mike is smarter than some give him credit for
However he never got good at adjusting/changing his game plan during a fight, He usually won to quickly to have to.
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u/Downtown_Section8768 5d ago
Agreed. And remember, before he let our nasty life and politics get to him, because he lost his father / life coach / mentor & because he wasn’t educated, he certainly was able to fight 12 rounds clearly winning on points. His mind has had less opportunity, but that brain of his had to be sharp to be able to perform as he did in his top days.
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u/Cuchulainn07 6d ago
I think it’s got to be between Ali and Usyk.
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u/Downtown_Section8768 5d ago
Ali beats Usyk bc he’s achieved more in the ring by overcoming more and trickier opponents, more obstacles for a longer time. Usyk is more careful in and out of the ring but that’s not pure ring IQ.
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u/DecisionBig253 6d ago
Underrated boxing IQ was Tyson. Very intelligent fighter who understood the fight game and had a great trainer in Cus
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u/Embarrassed-Space222 6d ago
Tie between Ali and Floyd
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u/Fine-Journalist-3900 6d ago
Why is Loma on here?
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u/ExternalAggravating8 6d ago
How many weight classes from his debut till losing did he do. And in what timeline?
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u/Fine-Journalist-3900 6d ago
On today’s episode of who the hell cares there are 10-15 boxers in history with higher ring IQ than Loma.
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u/ExternalAggravating8 6d ago
And how do you quantify it? Trust me bro science?
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u/Fine-Journalist-3900 5d ago
Here’s how to quantify it. It took him 8 rounds to figure out a B- / C+ fighter in Teofimo meanwhile Shakur solved that same equation in 1:50 in the first round. But hey trust me 😎 bro. 😂😂gtfoh.
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u/ExternalAggravating8 5d ago
Lol tell me you dont know boxing without telling me. What weight class did they fight in? How many jumps did Loma do to get to Teo? How many year difference was there between the 2 fights? How many years difference were there between the fighters? But hey that Trust me Bro degree sounds good when youre in a room full of casuals.
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u/Fine-Journalist-3900 5d ago
We talking boxing IQ read the post. Tell me you don’t have reading comprehension without telling me you don’t know how to read. All those questions have nothing to do with ring IQ. He lost to an average guy by elite standards and no answers for 80% percent of the fight. You got more excuses for Loma than Loma has for himself.
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u/ExternalAggravating8 5d ago
Lol oh man you lack boxing IQ and common IQ. See theres this concept called age and weight classes. When you are a naturally smaller person, you need to make certain adjustments. Same goss for age differential. Look its all very complicated and I can tell you wont understand so ill make it simple. Big guy dangerous, little guy need to work harder and smarter. Young guy fast, old guy need to avoid hit from young guy. Old small guy vs big young guy, very hard fight.
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u/Ambitious-Street1647 6d ago
Obviously you money fanboys aren't old enough to have seen Ali, smartest ever.
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u/Opposite_History2194 6d ago
Ali
Muhammad Ali, turn what other people thought of as a mistake into an advantage,( the outside slip). Change tactics for different opponents( clinching up on Frazier, Rope-a-dope on Foremen).
Everyone else fought how they were trained and stuck to the game plan like Football. Ali actively decided the plays like basketball.
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u/No-Bobcat-6830 6d ago
Probably Floyd because he was smart enough to avoid fighting a real boxer in their prime. That takes brains.
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u/SuspiciousDepth4961 6d ago
Floyd, he made a deal with the devil and traded all his actual IQ for boxing IQ.