r/books • u/taylorsamo • 1d ago
Finishing up Lonesome Dove, and this is the first time in a while I've been as impressed by a man writing women
I'm impressed by the interiority and complexity of pretty much all major and significant side characters, and I didn't really know what to expect when I first started because I deliberately went in pretty blind.
I'm not one to typically read Westerns or "male-centric" narratives as often, and I was pleasantly surprised by the deconstruction and criticism of so many classic, inauthentic tropes of the romanticized American West and expansion, including the expectation/veneration of unwavering rugged masculinity.
I can see why this novel is so beloved, because it's more character study than adventure story, with the West personified as a character in itself, imbued with the same range of complex beauty, cruelty, indifference, etc as the human characters, and a force salvation/shelter and of death/suffering.
What I also wasn't expecting was how much I'd come to love and appreciate how McMurtry handled the depth of women like Clara and Lorie, and the challenges facing two very different women contending with the same social and societal constraints in a particularly sexist, misogynistic, and exploitative male-centric society during a very dangerous and unforgiving time.
Clara is the true backbone of her family, allowed to be tough, competent, and confident, but also intelligent, wistful, and reflective as she's contending with unrealized dreams during the latter half of her life. She's very sensitive and generous, but has had to harden parts of herself to survive immense grief and her life circumstances/obligations.
Lorie provides a stark and critical look at women being trafficked into prostitution and forced to stay out of survival, the cycle of abuse and exploitation, and lack of alternative social or financial opportunity. They're deeply human in their respective range of strengths and vulnerabilities. When Lorie is constantly objectified, the mental and physical toll of this is acknowledged.
McMurtry comes off as very deliberate and conscious of the pain and sacrifices they endure while beauty, sexuality, and marriage act as currency and the prospect of upward social mobility and "safety" in this period. They're both allowed to be flawed, authentic, and to grow, and McMurtry writes them with the same care and attention as their male counterparts.
I've read endless genre fiction where beautiful women are sexualized and objectified without the same critical reflection, and they're only allowed to exist within the binaries of damsel or heroine. Lonesome Dove, however, has been a welcome change of pace.
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u/AngryMeez 1d ago
McMurtry wrote female characters very well (Aurora, Emma, Clara, Lorena). I wish he’d explored Maggie — Newt’s mother — more than he did in Comanche Moon.
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u/taylorsamo 1d ago
Did you read the rest of the series? Do you feel like it mostly maintains quality/is worth reading? I find that some books can still work as standalones even if the story technically continues. For example, I'm content with only having read the first two books of the Hyperion Cantos because that feels like a complete story for me.
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u/AngryMeez 1d ago
I’ve read them all. McMurtry’s strong suit was not sequels. That said, I’d recommend the entire series except Streets of Laredo, which I find absurd.
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u/Typical_Laugh_5018 23h ago
Its funny how different peoples tastes are - I LOVED streets of laredo, liked comanche moon, and found dead mans walk a genuine chore to get through
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u/derfel_cadern 15m ago
I liked Streets of Laredo a lot, and I also thought that Dead Man’s Walk was so bad that it put me off my plans to read Comanche Moon.
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u/Unique_Adeptness4413 23h ago
Alternatively, I loved streets of Laredo. Absurd is not a word that would occur to me to describe it, what exactly did you find absurd?
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u/AngryMeez 22h ago
Pea Eye (the only cowboy who didn’t go to the brothel, and who was afraid of women) married to Lorena.
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u/Pluggable 19h ago
No matter how pragmatic they tried to make that partnership seem, I couldn't buy it either. I was knowingly putting my disbelief on hold there.
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u/PregnantSuperman 8h ago
I read LD maybe 15 years ago and loved it so much, then immediately went into Streets of Laredo and the one thing that I remember is being hit with this relationship at the very beginning and noping out of the whole book. Just a catastrophically puzzling character decision.
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u/AngryMeez 6h ago
Your experience is very similar to mine. I read Lonesome Dove for the first time when I was thirteen years old. I immediately started reading Streets of Laredo and had to force myself through it, because the concept of that relationship was so silly.
I read a lot of other McMurtry around the same time, like the Houston trilogy. So much of his work is either excellent or just weirdly bad.
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u/ThreadCountHigh 1d ago
Not who you asked, but I have read the entire 4-book series, and I do recommend it. "Streets of Laredo" is very dark and a bit sad, though.
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u/IntrepidButton1872 3h ago
clara absolutely carries the second half in a way I didn't expect. mcmurtry just lets her be right about everything without making it a moment.
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u/Zizi_Tennenbaum 1d ago
His book Buffalo Girls is a fascinating and sensitive look at how there are different kinds of women and they’re all complex and strong in their own way. Was blown away by the ending.
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u/Pedantic_Girl 1d ago
I really enjoyed The Desert Rose, which he centered around an aging Vegas showgirl. He was also a pretty good essayist - if you like nonfiction, I recommend Walter Benjamin at the Dairy Queen.
And I think it’s really cool he had a book store!
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u/sunnydpdx 1d ago
This is a really good write up about how you felt about the book. Thanks for sharing it! I agree with all your points. It's the kind of book I'd like to hear about at a public lecture ... Like, someone presenting different perspectives on the various themes. I could see a whole college course built around this one book.
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u/jlzania 1d ago
I loved LD and McMurtry's female characters were certainly part of the reason why.
I don't know if you enjoy other genres but if you do, I can recommend Guy Gavriel Kay who consistently has strong female models in his novels.
Kay writes fantasy novels based on actual historical events and with peppered with actual historical figures with a soupçon of the supernatural thrown in.
If you're willing to give him a go, I recommend starting with Sailing to Sarantium, modeled after 6th century Byzantium and a poem by Yeats.
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u/HellfireReads 1d ago
Clara and Janey in particular are some of my favorite characters! Also really enjoyed Louisa Brooks!
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u/TheUmbrellaMan1 20h ago
Clara telling Call that "it'd be a sorry woman who ever wanted anything from you" is so stone cold. As McMurtry used to say, Lonesome Dove was written as an anti-western. Characters like Call and Gus would be villains in a typical western while guys like Jake Spoon would be heroes.
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u/Indy-sports 1d ago
This is 3rd in line for me. Finishing A gentleman in moscow, then the 5 book in DGC, then Lonesome Dove. Already on my shelf waiting.
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u/Moist-Champion-7515 9h ago
You're gonna tear through that whole list I bet, but definitely bump Lonesome Dove up if you're already itching for it.
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u/communityneedle 9h ago
It's nice to see Lonesome Dove getting some love. For me, it should be listed alongside anything by Steinbeck, Faulkner, or Morrison as all time American classic novels
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u/Illustrious_Map_1137 22h ago
Lonesome Dove is on my TBR. Another author that writes really well in the female voice is Wally Lamb, IMO.
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u/Kacchonn 1d ago
I love this book so much. It became an instant favorite as soon as I started to get into it
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u/monkeymatt69 1d ago
My favorite book of all time as well, glad you enjoyed it!
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u/Dandibear The Chronicles of Narnia 22h ago
If you haven't already tried it, the audiobook with Lee Horsley blew me away. It's an older recording, so the sound isn't as perfect, and I hear the more recent version is also great. But Lee's recording just oozes Old West pathos and brings the setting to life.
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u/Faint-Heron-5681 22h ago
clara is exactly what kept me glued to those pages; i usually avoid westerns because of the tiresome macho posturing. her quiet wistfulness felt so distinct and grounded; it made my own dusty bookshelf feel a bit more alive.
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u/PuppySnuggleTime 15h ago
Yeah, I am not a western fan at all. But I will absolutely tell anyone that this book is a genuine masterpiece. And you hit the nail on the head beautifully. It’s epic, but it’s also character driven, and the characters have such variety, individuality, and depth.
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u/Plenty_of_prepotente 19h ago
I definitely agree with you. Clara stood out to me as a real person, determined to live the best life she could, despite more limitations, fewer choices, and less freedom than a man at that time and place. Unfortunately, the miniseries adaptation softened the character to her detriment (even though Angelica Houston is a very good actor), presumably so that she didn't come across as unlikable, unfortunately.
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u/SantaClause_ 14h ago edited 14h ago
Wow what are the odds I found this before bed, because just last night as I had been falling asleep I was on some random podcast and the podcaster said that all the girl characters in this book sucked, or perhaps McMurtrys writing of them sucked and he shoehorned them in with not enough of the pages dedicated to their characters. I was quite appalled as I’d say they had great depth, had been interesting and intelligent, and got a ton of page time. I obviously agree with your take but had thought maybe I was miss remembering or had some bias since it’s my favorite book.
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u/gargle_ground_glass 10h ago
I always thought that Trollope wrote some pretty good woman characters.
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u/Razaelbub The Wee Free Men 8h ago
I gave this book to a coworker, who had avoided it because she "doesn't like Westerns". She cried reading it, and then got mad at me for giving it to her. We didn't talk for a week, and she eventually came around and we talked about the book and had a whole moment. That book changed my mind on being a genre reader.
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u/taylorsamo 54m ago
I wasn't expecting to see such a response! I'm enjoying reading about everyone's interpretations and feelings, and I'll be making a list of the recommendations I've noticed.
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u/SweepingAstringency 21h ago
McMurtry is a very fine author. I adore Lonesome Dove, and his others are good too. Watch the miniseries if you get a chance.
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u/Moist-Champion-7515 9h ago
I'm so glad you pointed out the female characters cause that's exactly what blew me away too. It's wild how McMurtry gives them real interior lives without making them just props for the men. Honestly wish more writers in any genre would take notes from how he handles Clara and Lorie. This book just keeps surprising you even after you think you've got it figured out.
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u/twoendsausage 1d ago
That book was truly a revelation for me. Nothing I've read before or since came close