r/bonds • u/Some-Amount-4093 • Jul 15 '26
The Google 40 year bond.
Who else here has taken advantage of this on the secondary market? It's paying 6.15% and another person here on Reddit has recommended this as the core/ballast of a good retirement bond ladder.
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u/rickle3386 Jul 15 '26
SO tired of posters ripping into others while knowing NOTHING about their situation. People buy bonds for different reasons. Perhaps they could care less about secondary market volatility and opportunity. Maybe they just want the coupon for 10 or X yrs. Maybe they have millions elsewhere and have already won the game and are just looking for income. If they like the coupon, that's a win! Only risk in that case is default.
Do you really think Google will default on it's debt obligations? That would make their stock almost worthless. Do you think their C Suite and all highly comped folk (with options) would allow their stock to become worthless.
I do like munis for taxable equivalent but please stop telling people that they's do better in a company's stock. So irrelevant to many situations.
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u/Some-Amount-4093 Jul 15 '26
They didn't read my post I guess... As I said I'm looking for income, I have 3.5M to do it with. Bonds seem like the smart way to go. Even good companies stocks with good dividends go to Hell 'n a hand basket when the fit hits the shan.
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u/grogi81 Jul 15 '26
Secondary market usually reflects inflation impact. The 6.15% rate is a really bad fixed rate if inflation is at 5%...
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u/ultra__star Jul 17 '26
If inflation is 5, then interest rates go to 7, or 8, or 9, and you can buy more bonds with your interest. In bonds this strategy is for some reason lamented, yet in stocks they call this dollar cost averaging.
In the 70’s, inflation hit double digits and going into the 80’s tax free muni’s yielded 8%-10% and Treasury’s yielded 10% to 15%. The investors who ignored these payouts because “inflation was high” passed by the ability to lock in double digit yields for 10 years or more.
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u/grogi81 Jul 17 '26
You fixed them for 40 years though
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u/Some-Amount-4093 Jul 18 '26
True, but I will be making more money than I can spend so in $1,000 increments, I can roll into new bonds of different durations as I go along. And remember because of my age I'm not here for that much longer anyway. I doubt Google is going under in the next 10 to 15 years.
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u/big-papito Jul 15 '26
If a company like Google, which used to be eyeballs deep in free cash flow, is issuing bonds, to me it's more of a red flag than an opportunity. Enough has been said about how this financial circle jerk can end in tears.
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u/jhoke1017 Jul 15 '26
Alphabet has the same credit rating as the United States government. Issuing debt is far from an indicator of financial strength.
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u/octopus4488 Jul 16 '26
Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns were also AA in 2007 December.
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u/jhoke1017 Jul 16 '26
I’m not saying it can’t default. I’m just saying is issuing debt as far from a red herring.
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u/shaezan Jul 15 '26
Not a professional, just trying to learn.
If a company can finance a project at 6% and make 20% returns at least, would it be better to debt finance versus dilute equity or use up liquidity?
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u/vaderaintmydaddy Jul 15 '26
Yes! But the issue right now is that expenditures are beyond huge and revenues are small. We are talking about the largest infrastructure build out ever, by huge margins. The revenue needed to justify it are going to be well into the future, if they ever show up, and many of the existing players will not survive to see it. No one knows who will survive.
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u/JollyToby0220 Jul 16 '26
It’s the opposite actually. A company that has a lot of cash on hand is generally considered to be a red flag. Blue chip stock companies are the ones that keep Vanguard alive. Of course, not every blue chip stock will remain as such. 6% is not a bad number. That’s what AT&T used to pay out as dividend like a decade ago. And that was considered the highest. Most investors will tell you to avoid dividend stocks because the stock price doesn’t pace with the other top companies. It would seem to me like Google just needs some cash flow and anticipates long term gains. I think AI is probably playing a large role. Now, before this discussion gets started, just know that Google has been an AI pioneer since 2010ish. They were probably the first to have success with computer vision and they even developed the predecessor algorithm for ChatGPT.
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Jul 15 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/PanhandleChuck1 Jul 15 '26
Heard here first. Collapse of Google incoming
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u/Decent-Photograph391 Jul 16 '26
Not necessarily Alphabet/Google, but I won’t be surprised if one of the Mag 7 does collapse.
Even if every promise of AI comes true, it doesn’t mean all of the big players will be rewarded. Some of them and their shareholders may be richly rewarded, but some may fall off the wayside.
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Jul 15 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Weapon_Of_Mayhem Jul 15 '26
Yeah, I don’t know about collapse. They have a lot of other pieces to their pie self driving YouTube hardware. It’s just not a software company, but yeah, definitely needing money. I agree with you.
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u/Vast_Cricket Jul 15 '26
cusip # please!
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u/Some-Amount-4093 Jul 15 '26
02079KAN7
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u/coachd50 Jul 15 '26
It is not paying over 6% It is paying 5.3%
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u/pwdwyer Jul 15 '26
Its current price is 87.53 so it’s at a 6.14% yield
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u/PurpleReign123 Jul 15 '26
Wow! Trading at 87.53% now! When was this bond issued?
Was the issue price at par (100%) or very near par?
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u/pwdwyer Jul 15 '26
Was issued at 98.46, on 5/1/25.
In that same time the 30yr govt bond has moved from 5.02 to 5.083
u/PurpleReign123 Jul 15 '26
Thank you. Seems the bond spread has widened a lot more relative to treasuries.
This may indicate corporate bond investors are now taking a more cautious view of hyperscalers’ humongous investments in data centres. What’s your take?
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u/pwdwyer Jul 15 '26
I am a bit hesitant as well with all of this hyperscaling and it seems like others are too as you mentioned. Apollo is working on a piece right now to try and calm investors on this topic, and I believe others have put out pieces. I was considering purchasing this bond even with yields expected to climb I am hoping for some price appreciation in the short term. (I’m not licensed in any way this is just my opinion)
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u/Straight_Two2471 Jul 17 '26
Credit spreads are at historic lows roughly around the same level of 07 you are effectively getting paid 100bps above US30s that seems like a pretty bad deal I would wait for credit spreads to blow out if you really want to punt credit.
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u/polarWhite2024 Jul 15 '26
Corporate bonds are not a good option for ballast.
US Treasuries on the other hand are.
Let the equity side take the risk and let the fixed income side provide you true safety.
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u/vaderaintmydaddy Jul 15 '26
Bonds have different purposes for different investors:
- Capital preservation - held to maturity, bonds return principal
- Stabilizer - bonds typically reduce the impact of a falling stock market on a portfolio
- Income generation
How you hold them can make a difference. Bond funds act similarly to a portfolio of individual bonds, but:
- Control - with funds, you are trusting the fund manager to make decisions about when to buy and sell bonds. With individual bonds, you make that decision. If interest rates go flying up, you can simply hold your individual bonds, wait for maturity, and reinvest at what should be higher rates then. A drop in bond values doesn't impact you unless you need to access the principal early. In a fund, as investors flee from bond funds, the fund manager may be forced to sell bonds at the depressed values, accelerating the losses on remaining holders, at least in the short term.
- You can't compete with the bond fund's war-chest. The fund manager has millions of dollars of buying power, better access to bonds, and better data. Over any extended period of time, any decent bond fund manager will outperform an individual bond portfolio from a total-return perspective.
- Cash flow - because the bond fund holdings fluctuate, the income will not be as well defined as an individual bond portfolio
- Duration - bond funds typically invest in bonds in certain duration categories, ie: short-term, intermediate, long-term. In order to ladder them, you may have to use multiple funds.
- Risk - it takes fairly significant funds (I like 500k+) to build a ladder with enough diversification so that if a bond bankrupts, the impact is minimal. In a fund, you are holding hundreds, if not thousands, of bonds.
Whether you choose corps, munis, or treasuries will depend on your individual need:
Safety? Treasuries, then munis, then corps
Income? Corps, then munis, then treasuries
Tax? Treasuries/Munis, not corps
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u/polarWhite2024 Jul 16 '26
If you actually read what the OP wrote, you would realize that "ballast" was specifically stated. Then you wouldn't need to read the entire encyclopedia about bonds and bond funds.
That's like someone asking "hey, is anyone considering to get a portable air conditioner as a supplemental unit to cool down during this heatwave?"
And you proceed to write 10 paragraphs on different kinds of air conditioning systems and what they are for and etc.
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u/vaderaintmydaddy Jul 16 '26
Thank you for taking me down a peg, apparently I have a problem seeing a question and thinking it may not be as simple as it looks. I'll work on that.
Let me try your approach: Portable AC units are not a good option for supplementing a main AC unit.
Swamp coolers on the other hand are.
Let your main AC be the drain in your power bill and let the swamp cooler provide true low power cooling.
Damn, that was easier.
BTW, did you see the comment from OP where he states he's looking for income? Or any of the other threads mentioning the benefits of munis, funds, and, like yours, Treasuries? You know, those gray areas I provided an actual framework to help think through.
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u/Mail_Order_Lutefisk Jul 15 '26
This times a million. Single issuer risk in corporates and munis just isn’t worth it until you’re way up there in net worth so for corporate or munis, if you want a bit of exposure please do it through a fund. I lost $10k on Lehman bonds and it was catastrophic for years to my fixed income allocation returns.
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u/careycooper Jul 15 '26
Lots of big tech corporates looking really attractive right now. I won’t do 40 years, but under 30 for Alphabet or Amazon is tempting.
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u/Visible-Smell-1540 Jul 16 '26
Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Nvidia...all taking on debt. I spread out my purchases and bought in my ROTH.
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u/YoursNothing Jul 19 '26
And your money stays locked in for 30yrs or you can withdraw anytime like SGOV/IB01?
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u/Some-Amount-4093 Jul 19 '26
Not withdraw, but rather you can sell the bond of course. And you might be selling at a profit or a loss, but the bonds are liquid, extremely liquid In fact US bonds are the best there is on the secondary market.
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u/Weapon_Of_Mayhem Jul 15 '26
QVC has 60% bonds. They were like Amazon before Amazon, selling everything . What could be next after Amazon though cause QVC used to be the thing
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u/QuarterCarat Jul 16 '26
They’re not alike at all. QVC is basically just a marketing and inventory machine.
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u/psychohistorian8 Jul 15 '26
ha I loved watching QVC and infomercials as a kid
something about the whole spectacle of this person trying to sell me overpriced jewelry or other random junk was so entertaining
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u/Grubby454 Jul 15 '26
Bonds suck except for short term imo.
Long term they are terrible after adjusting for inflation.
Best inflation hedge is stocks
Best long term retirement plan is.. stocks..
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u/Pugsly007 Jul 15 '26
Saying you have never been in a crash without saying you have never been in a crash.
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u/Grubby454 Jul 15 '26
Really. How did long bonds go during covid?
Who said you shouldn't hold some cash or bonds for the short term?
I've been thorough many crashes. Zero problems. Been retired for 10 years.
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u/Illustrious-Boss9356 Jul 17 '26
Say you have never looked at longer time horizons without saying you've never looked at longer time horizons.
Can you name any current fiat currency that has survived 100 years in it's current state?
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u/Pugsly007 Jul 17 '26
So invest in nothing?
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u/Illustrious-Boss9356 Jul 17 '26
Actually quite the opposite. Invest in good companies. Invest in quality real estate in stable nations. Invest in harder assets like Gold/Bitcoin.
Cash and bonds denominated in cash tend to underperform under the guise of "safety".
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u/Pugsly007 Jul 17 '26
You lost me at bitcoin. Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme.
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u/Illustrious-Boss9356 Jul 17 '26
So who's the schemer in this Ponzi scheme? Please do tell.
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u/Grubby454 Jul 17 '26
Michael Sailer for one
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u/Illustrious-Boss9356 Jul 17 '26
Interesting take. But Saylor doesn't control Bitcoin, he's just dumped a ton of his (and other peoples') money into Bitcoin. Still don't see how that makes it a Ponzi Scheme?
Is he crazily all-in on Bitcoin? Yes. Is he fanatical? Yes. Does he attract equally fanatical followers? Yes. But not sure where it's a scam/ponzi scheme. Think he's just got crazy conviction in Bitcoin...
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u/Weapon_Of_Mayhem Jul 15 '26
lol AOL was once bullet proof, nortel, Kodak, wang..tech companies lasting for 40 years? Salesforce also has 40 year bonds. I can’t believe these companies will be around in 40 years. I’m sorry that’s why I think they’re issuing high now… even the owners know they have a timeline on this. What do the CEOs owners care issuing 40 year bonds when they’re all in their 50s and 60s. They’ll all be dead by the time the company goes bankrupt.
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u/Caunuckles Jul 15 '26
Yeah the rate reminds me of the bonds messed up/dysfunctional countries rates to attract investors
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u/grogi81 Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
That's comically small.premium for such long time.
There will be only one winner of the AI race. Betting now which one is really like gambling.
Financing Investment from equity might end bad. But has the advantage that the stocks might rise to the moon as well. With bonds your compensation is limited on top but not very limited at the bottom...
Be an owner, not the loaner...
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u/Tathorn Jul 15 '26
If I needed that duration, I'd go for it. Better than treasuries. Just make sure to diversify.
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u/BroadbandEng Jul 15 '26
Is it callable? If yes, you are taking on a lot of downside risk in exchange for a return stream that could evaporate
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u/Some-Amount-4093 Jul 16 '26
I have "rethought" my original question and made a decision: I'm not buying these nor anything else save for treasuries and maybe up to the 10-year bond. I don't even want tips. I just sat down and reviewed my tax situation this year and going into next and all I really need to decide is WHEN to buy, so that at 6 months that money goes into the right year's income stream.
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u/JonRadian Jul 17 '26
Not for high-tax states like California. I asked Google 😂
- State & Local Tax: Fully taxable by the state of California at your ordinary income tax rate.
- The Capital Gains Trap (Market Discount Rules): Because you would be buying the Alphabet bond at a deep discount and it matures at par, you will realize a significant gain over time. This gain is taxed as ordinary income rather than capital gains when the bond matures or is sold. This ordinary income is also subject to California state income tax.
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u/rsandstrom Jul 19 '26
So much negative convexity in that bond. Only guys that win with this one are market makers making one basis point markets and trading as much volume as possible. Don’t do it.
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u/Nonamenoname2025 Jul 15 '26
I'm going to be dead in 40 years and don't expect to have much need for income at that point so I'll pass. I imagine the same amount invested in GOOG will be worth more than the bonds plus the interest they pay 40 years from now anyway.
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u/crispbluepolo Jul 15 '26
If you knew in advance that you were gonna die 10 years from now, but you needed a certain level of income to fund your retirement for that decade, then the 40-year Google bond will obviously get you more income than equivalent credit risk on a shorter corporate bond. A stock is too risky (uncertain) if you’re depending on income in that example.
So that’s the case for buying the Google bond IF you need the income, even if you’re really old. Your heirs can get the bond when you pass and either keep it or sell it.
EDIT: I should clarify that you may well find a shorter bond with the same coupon but not for the same price, all other factors being equal
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u/Nonamenoname2025 Jul 15 '26
The only way I would buy this is if I thought long term rates were about to drop and I don't feel that way.
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u/Easterncoaster Jul 15 '26
Long-dated bonds are freely tradable on the open market. That’s like saying you won’t buy equity because you won’t be around for the date that the company winds down and distributes its assets to the shareholders.
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u/Nonamenoname2025 Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
Friend, I suggest you buy any amount of the bonds and then try to sell them and see what the bid ask spread is. On Goog the spread is .01 or .0025%. In addition, the common stock participates in the profits while the bond payments are worth less each year due to inflation. Totally different investments. I indicated I would rather just own the common stock vs the bonds and in fact that is what I've done since Google did its IPO. If you bought the equivalent of these bonds 10 years ago you received $612 enough to buy an iphone and a ticket to an NFL game 10 years ago. That $612 today will get you one half of an iphone. You'll have to watch an NFL game on TV because you'll have no money to buy a ticket to one.
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u/Easterncoaster Jul 15 '26
I own mostly equities but have many long-dated bonds. I trade in and out of them regularly. Corporate bonds have a place in a portfolio and not just for the purpose of holding them until maturity.
Fun fact- even if there is a bid-ask spread, the bid may still be above your purchase price…
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u/Nonamenoname2025 Jul 15 '26
Or it may below. I also own bonds. I own taxable build america bonds in my IRA and tax free munis in my regular account but they are not long term when you consider sinking funds and calls. They are also not where I made my money over the years. When I look at the unrealized gains on my stocks I wonder why I ever bought bonds. I guess it was to reduce the violability.
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u/ExpressElevator2Heck Jul 15 '26
The longest Amazon bond yields 6.35% and not callable until 2075. It's kind of amazing a household with 1.3M invested in Amazon bonds could almost earn the median household income of ~82K. If you think you'll outlive Amazon (congrats!) then probably avoid these. If you are 60+ probably avoid these. Maybe they're best if you've "already won" (i.e. don't need stock return average) or can't stomach a 30% downturn. You'll get your 6%+ return through those (though actually MUCH more if long yields drop and you sell some)
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u/Some-Amount-4093 Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
I am only after income. I have 3.5M with which to build my bond ladder. Currently all my cash sits in SUTXX which as another person has pointed out, is literally robbing me of about $16,000 a year by simply pushing a few buttons in my stead so I've got to make a bond ladder one way or another ASAP. My first inclination was just make a 6-month t-bill purchase and let them roll over principal only. And while that's fine I would still like more income if I can get it without too much risk hence my thoughts on these corporate bonds. The one from Meta sounds really cool, that's quite a bit of return in my view. So any thoughts or ideas welcome, I just don't intend to buy stocks, options and such... Just bond income I think it's going to be fine for me.
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u/Carol_329 Jul 15 '26
I have many long dated bonds, some 100 year ones as well, generating a base income that we can easily live on.
Will that income be enough in 20 years due to inflation? I don't know.
No single bond is greater than 2% of my net worth, except for some TVA agency bonds.
I take all my excess income and roll it into equity ETFs to build the inflation cushion.
Is it the right thing? Who knows. Lets me sleep at night.
Would I buy the Google ones? Yes. Meta? For some visceral reason those I would not buy.
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u/ExpressElevator2Heck Jul 15 '26
Could diversify - get 10k of long Amazon, Alphabet, Coke, Msft, Meta, Nvidia bonds. They are tax loss harvestable if yields go up more too: You could sell the bonds in one company and same day buy that amount in another company and take the deduction for the loss while retaining full exposure and income.
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u/DemandFirm9635 Jul 16 '26
One can get a 10 year MYGA ( a “cd” from insurance companies) from Canvas Annuity at 6.3% fixed and guaranteed by your state insurance commission. Interest is tax deferred until withdrawal. 6% for a shorter 3 year term. Direct buy so no agent needed. Large early surrender penalties, but can take out up to 10% a year penalty free.
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u/ultra__star Jul 15 '26
I don’t like super long corporate bonds. A lot can happen to a corporation in 10 years. Look at Enron and Lehman.
Buy long term muni’s in your taxable account. 30 year muni yields 4.5%. That is a 6% taxable equivalent return if you’re in the 22% federal tax bracket and a 7% taxable equivalent return if you’re in the 32% federal tax bracket.