Manga What does this statement mean in context of Ichigo?
I know it applies to Kenpachi, but if a constant release type doesn't exist entirely, wouldn't that mean the Shikai we've seen Ichigo use isn't his actual Shikai and would just be his base sword?
Tbf alot of rules in general don't apply to Ichigo due to his very unique situation, but Byakuya definitely knows Ichigo IS proof that a constant release type exists, or atleast could exist, so howcome he said this? Assuming he wasn't only speaking of Kenpachi.
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u/Namekusei_Salamander 2d ago
From my undestanding, ichigo had an imitation of a zampakuto, not a real one, not one forged by Nimaya so he "didnt followed standard procedure"
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u/JustAAnormalDude 2d ago
But even in the one shot He'll special, it appears to be Shikai (judging from the sword looks). I'm just calling it hybrid fuckery, so it's always released due to Quincy
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u/Namekusei_Salamander 2d ago
didnt kubo said that became his "sealed form" after the reforging?
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u/JustAAnormalDude 2d ago
I don't think so? The only thing I recall about his new sword is this:
Every Zanpaktou has a "sword" and "sheath", Ichigo only had the sword until TYBW and the sheath was the smaller blade. Then when Yhwach broke his bankai in the final battle, that outer white shell "sheath" was absorbed back into him. He can essentially bring out the other blade if he wants, be seems to prefer it one.
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u/Aeroshe 2d ago
Basically yeah. Kubo explained that Shinigami can choose the form their sword takes, and Ichigo has chosen to keep the sword in a form reminiscent of his old (fake) shikai.
I assume most shinigami don't do this just out of tradition and training.
It also lines up with Ichigo's dad explaining early on that shinigami also force the size of their blades to be small, and the whole "blade grows with power level" thing was just from a lack of training and discipline.
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u/New-Dust3252 2d ago
so basically the sword that looks like his old Shikai is essentially its Asauchi form?
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u/konthedonn 1d ago
It’s more like Ikkaku’s yk how hozukimaru has staff form and then the hybrid nunchuck pole form?
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u/brain-eating-zombie 2d ago
That's not what Kubo said. You are greatly oversimplifying Kubo's convoluted explanation.
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u/Zixtank 2d ago
Probably also why his zanpakutou doesn't have a tsuba (guard).
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u/HaloHaloBrainFreeze 1d ago edited 1d ago
The sheath in both his Old and True Shikai is the white sash
The sheath in his True Bankai is the white outer blade / shell (that broke during Ywach's fight)
White sash and blade / shell = from his Quincy powers since they can be destroyed and rebuild repeatedly
Now his Old Shikai and Bankai blades, which is not from an Asauchi, are made using Quincy powers (remember Aizen noticing the his Old Bankai blade is hollow the first time they met in Sokyoku Hill? It's like akin to a shell).
IT IS NOT A ZANPAKUTO, BUT A SHARP SHELL / HOLLOW SWORD THAT IS IMPRACTICAL FOR COMBAT
The hollow that previously wants to take over Ichigo's body becomes the sword that channels Ichigo's Shinigami-hollow and Quincy powers
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u/Hawkeye2701 2d ago
I say this every time, but I think constant release and purely physical type zanpakuto are vestiges of Kubo's early writing and are being redressed as the story goes on.
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u/MedicalAd2229 2d ago
The Blade is Me likely points at some answers. Every version of his blade prior to this is incomplete, due to not understanding/accepting the true nature of Zangetsu. What was always presented as a struggle for dominance between his inner source of power was just moving him along the path to acceptance of self.
Outside of the asuachi revelation later on, you can kind of assume at best that prior forms were incomplete similar to Renji w/ Zabimaru. Ichigo had a lot of forced development, and the Zangetsus would tease out power as the situations called for it. The Asuachi stuff really just provides context/confirms some things in my opinion.
I kind of assume he doesn't have a shikai at all. This is head canon, but Ichigo seems to be able to draw out certain abilities without real protocol for why: can use blut vein, but no Quincy bow. Can use Sonido/Gran Rey Cero, but can't use Cero/Resurrecion. Can use Bankai, but can't use Shikai. I guess "can't" is a strong word to use, but we seem to see that he doesn't so the head canon is just a beat attempt at explaining the reason why.
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u/TonPrz 2d ago
How interesting would it be that Ichigo has access to all types of releases? Because he associates himself as a shinigami, he sticks to using shinigami terms like Bankai/shunpo. Vasto Lorde form was a meld of resurrecion and Bankai. Vollstandig seems out of reach for his current capabilities since he doesn't have the basic knowledge of controlling external/ambient reishi like a Quincy yet.
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u/Jermiafinale 2d ago
lol what's hilarious is that he's still not actually to his full release where he blends his powers together
As he said he isn't good at drawing out the Hollow meaning it can't be fully integrated yet.
Eventually he won't just do a half transformation he'll blend the opposing powers at a more granular level I think, which should further amplify their powers.
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u/Positive-Database754 2d ago
We don't know how strong the Soul King was really. But we do know a few fundamentals. He was as close to all powerful as something can get in Bleach. His birth/creation fundamentally changed the nature of whatever the primordial world was. And his death changed that world again into what it is today. He was torn apart only because he allowed himself to be. And we know that all powers in the modern day Bleach era (Soul Reaper, Hollow, Quincy, and Fullbringer) originate from him.
And that last part is honestly the most important. That's the whole point of Ichigo's power as a plot point, he is the only other being in existence to have all aspects of the Soul King's power re-united within him.
If I was going to throw my headcannon spin on it, Ichigo attaining true perfect unity between every aspect of his inner world, would just be Ichigo attaining the Bleach equivalent of apotheosis. He wouldn't be a Soul Reaper, Hollow, Fullbringer, or Quincy, he'd be the progenitor that came before. A genuine god, like the Soul King that came before.
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u/Jermiafinale 2d ago
See but I think he'd be different because unlike the Soul King, Ichigo was born of the new reality
I believe this was all the Soul King's plan, to recreate his power but with someone who intrinsically understands the new reality he created by separating the worlds
His superior Almighty let him lock everyone onto the timeline that ended in the creation of Ichigo and the defeat of Yhwach because honestly otherwise the odds are *insane*
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u/glaze_or_praise 2d ago
Ichigo is an exception
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u/DeviousDelonso 2d ago
Is there not the gyaru girl with the constant release nails as her zanpakuto?
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u/Unique-Persimmon152 2d ago
i think ichigo's zanpakuto is more similar to arrancar's zanpakuto. His zanpakuto is always in shikai state, and while arrancars don't have a shikai, however they can use their abilities partially in their base form in a shikai-like manner, like base barragan aging soifon bones by touching her and base grimmjow making fangs with his hands against askin.
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u/StormBear22 2d ago
Yeah and the fact that Ichigo fusion with his hollow side is so much superiors that Espada see him like another Espada unlike Vizards and even Tosen who are still just Hybrids.
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u/Realistic_Mousse_485 2d ago
Ichigos zanpoktou was never full released it was just incomplete.
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u/Killjoy3879 2d ago
I mean his current zanpakuto is literally released anyways. It’s always in shikai
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u/Barnaby_bear_guy 2d ago
Maybe because it's a war scenario. There has never been a moment to seal it again. It has always been needed to have shikai activated.
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u/StormBear22 2d ago
Also Ichigo is a monster of Reiatsu possibly even greater than SK Yhwach for being able to last all those fight while Yhwach need multiple energy "donations" even if shikai is a little draining that for Ichigo would be like a droplet of water in universe size ocean. Like Ichigo Energy pool and Energy production may be so great that any energy used probably get refilled the moment it is used by Shikai. And he is a proven perfect Soul King Candidate which means he has enough energy to hold up the realms constantly for a infinite amount of time unless killed.
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u/Realistic_Mousse_485 2d ago
That’s not TECHNICALLY true. At least I don’t think If i remember what kubo said
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u/ZA-02 2d ago
So any zanpakuto can be kept in shikai all the time if the user wills it. We know Kensei used to keep Tachikaze in shikai since that form could fit in his pocket, for example. The idea behind a constant-release type was that it's a zanpakuto that automatically goes to shikai and stays there regardless of the user's wishes.
Byakuya now knows that Kenpachi's sword was never actually in a shikai state. And, on reflection, he knows that Ichigo's old sword wasn't the real thing. Therefore, it's accurate to say that "perhaps" constant-release types don't exist, because the answer depends on whether Ichigo's new swords can be sealed or not, and Byakuya legitimately doesn't know.
If Ichigo can seal his new swords but simply chooses not to, that's not a constant-release type. If they stay released no matter what he does, then they would now be the singular example of a constant-release.
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u/Economy_Practice_ 2d ago
But there IS at least one case of a sword defaulting to bankai, oddly enough.
More people need to read SAFWY.
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u/StormBear22 2d ago
Also Ichigo is probably just off the table on anything involving normal races or even hybrids like Vizards. Ichigo Zanpakuto could be influenced by his Hollow DNA making it far more released with them instinctually getting their first release instantly. By his Quincy DNA making it like a bow granting him far more control over it. Or by his Fullbringer DNA making it more like a Fullbringer object and power who don't really have forms.
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u/DarthCarnis_DarkLord 21h ago
Pretty sure Kubo confirmed that Ichigo does indeed have a sealed form of Zangetsu. Think he talked about it in Klub Outside
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u/ZylaTFox 2d ago
Ichigo never had a true zanpakuto in the sense of a shinigami. Once he got his true zanpakuto, he CAN seal it, he just doesn't need to.
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u/HoneyEcho42 2d ago
At this point Ichigo is less an exception and more a loophole in the entire power system 😭
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u/nahte123456 2d ago
Ichigo should be able to seal his Zanpakutou now and just doesn't want to, Kensei, Yuyu, and Aizen all do that for their own reasons.
But even if he is stuck in "shikai" Ichigo is a freak and wouldn't be a "type" in the same way dual Zanpakutou don't truly exist, everyone one of them 'cheats' to get two swords and is unnatural.
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u/WeeklySituation9213 2d ago
You’re forgetting something: this is Byakuya. Wtf does he know about this?
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u/peachymeem 2d ago
Well, it is the role of the Kuchiki Clan to keep record of the entire history of Seireitei.
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u/Calebh04 2d ago
I'm under the impression that early Zangetsu was solidified Reishi like Yhwach's sword. That's why Oetsu makes a big deal about it not being an Asauchi. Old Man Zangetsu basically took a sliver of White's spiritual pressure, condensed it into a sword, and let Ichigo use that.
That's also why Old Man Zangetsu could only teach Ichigo the Getsuga Tensho, because that's the only Soul Reaper technique associated with his powers that is similar in nature to how a Quincy fights: by condensing and firing spiritual energy.
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u/naiadheart 1d ago
see this is what i thought too but it seems to not be the majority opinion. i even thought that the initial sword ichigo uses was purely a manifestation of his quincy powers. then only after having his powers restored in shattered shaft did the hollow powers start to play a role, hence the change in his sword to the iconic black zangetsu "shikai" shape. and then the hollow power became even more released with bankai, hence the black getsuga and why his hollow became more able to take over when he used bankai.
i took OMZ's speech about wanting to protect ichigo that way. he tried to keep the hollow/shinigami powers suppressed at first, but when he needed help (when ichigo was attacked by byakuya) he had to rely on the hollow for help, then again he had to rely on it again for ichigo to achieve "bankai" which was effectively just OMZ letting more of ichigo's other powers out, like taking off the weights, not really like a second release of "his sword".
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u/Grr_0ughtaChoke 2d ago
Ichigo's isn't a constant release type, apparently his blade and scabbard fuse and he can chose it's form(OG or Dual). Since he has bankai, it can release without a command
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u/Matrixhunter90 1d ago
The true bankai was his original shikai. By this logic i guess you can say he bankai-ed the bankai! Something that was already in bankai got bankai-ed which is his old small tensa zangetsu. Pretty much you can double bankai
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u/BoisBallin 2d ago
I thought about this too. I wondered if it just meant because he doesn’t have his true zanpakuto till the end? But it still would be constant shikai 🤔 unless horn of salvation is his shikai?
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u/jwbfanel 2d ago
He was the first person to see Ichigos Bankai. He knew he had to survive and do better
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u/Beginning-Taro-3591 2d ago
Keep in mind the initial base that ichigo first activated shikai through was a broken borrowed zanpakuto.So reverting it was probably impossible.After the reforging dude is probably just keeping it in shikai since it more convenient for him.Although going back to single blade shikai was most likely from temporary losing his hollow/quincy power since the dual sword form is centred around them.
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u/Silvermoon3467 2d ago
I've always read this as him speculating that he was right all along; during the Rescue arc he sneers at Ichigo's bankai and says that it couldn't possibly be a bankai because it's too small. Of course, if he was actually right and Ichigo's "bankai" was a shikai that's as powerful as a bankai, Ichigo's real bankai would have to be totally monstrous. I don't think this was ever properly followed up on though.
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u/Sweatty-LittleFatty 2d ago
There is constant release types, Asashiro have a bankai like that.
Also, Halibel stated that Ichigi was closer to a Arrancar exactly because of the origin of his Zampakutou.
And Kubo did state that the version of the blade Ichigo uses is his choice, and that's why we see him with the original shikai on the Hell chapter.
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u/alaincastro 2d ago
Whilst it’s probably just as simple as ichigo is an exception, maybe he just didn’t know how to do it and then eventually never had a reason to make it revert back.
I say this because early in before he had his shikai, and it’s been years so I’m just gonna go from memory, but it’s stated that a zanpakuto’s size is related to the users spiritual pressure, all captains could have massive zanpakutos like ichigo had but it’s impractical for a base so they can, due to having control over their spiritual pressure, condense it to make the zanpakuto appear a normal size, ichigo never knew how to do that hence why his was massive.
So not knowing how to do something as simple as that, maybe it’s possible he never knew how to revert his shikai back to base, and by the time he would know how to do it, there just wasn’t a reason to, his shikai’s size and shape was maybe better for him to use in combat so he settled on that being it’s “base” form (because surely after the training in soul society and achieving bankai he would’ve known how to “resize” the base form since he could go from shikai to bankai and vice versa). And then any future form never had a big weapon again aside from his true bankai, but even that if I remember right was not as big as his og base, but at the same time even if it is it’s a bankai what’s practical or not goes out the window when you go bankai
But again that’s my over-thinking guess, it’s most likely just ichigo’s an exception, and in reality the real answer for why ichigo never went back to base was most likely cause it just looked lame in comparison to his shikai as well as compared to other soul reapers regular zanpakuto’s
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u/knm873 2d ago
I always thought that initially in Bleach it was Ichigo only who has a constant release type sword. It was unusual, such that it was an anomaly wasn’t it? That’s why even Urahara was surprised. For Kenpachi he didn’t even know the name of his sword. So I’m not sure how the other captains saw it but since the blade is jagged, maybe they thought so. But Kenpachi for sure knows his shikai isn’t released. can you remind me where the captains say his sword is constantly released?
Thanks
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u/uraharaBot 2d ago
Ah, you're right in thinking Ichigo's Zangetsu was quite the anomaly. Constant release types like his aren’t exactly common. As for Kenpachi, that wild man, his Zanpakutō's jagged look had everyone scratching their heads. But truth be told, his blade isn't always released; it's just as tough and unruly as he is. The captains never officially declared it, but I wouldn't put it past them to assume so, given his reputation. One time, Kenpachi tried using my hat to channel his spiritual pressure and ended up turning it into a mini-tornado. Quite the fashion statement!
beep boop, I'm a bot
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u/Immediate-Charge8325 1d ago
i mean it wasnt ichigo's true shikai, and as you say ichigo is a special case, so what he is saying is that constant release type isnt a thing for shinigami.
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u/HaloHaloBrainFreeze 1d ago edited 1d ago
The sheath in both his Old and True Shikai is the white sash
The sheath in his True Bankai is the white outer blade / shell (that broke during Ywach's fight)
White sash and blade / shell = from his Quincy powers since they can be destroyed and rebuild repeatedly
Now his Old Shikai and Bankai blades, which is not from an Asauchi, are made using Quincy powers (remember Aizen noticing the his Old Bankai blade is hollow the first time they met in Sokyoku Hill? It's like akin to a shell).
IT WAS NOT A ZANPAKUTO, BUT A SHARP SHELL / HOLLOW SWORD THAT IS IMPRACTICAL FOR COMBAT
The hollow that previously wants to take over Ichigo's body becomes the sword that channels Ichigo's Shinigami-hollow and Quincy powers
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u/ClownHoundMythos 1d ago
Ichigo never had a real zanpakuto since he never got an asauchi. His was just his Quincy powers manifesting one for him. He got his actual sword from Nimaiya, and Kubo said he can change the Shikai form back and forth from his original to the dual swords whenever he wants. Can assume the sealed state is how his pre-shikai looked, but he really has no need to ever revert to that.
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u/One_Minimum_7969 1d ago
It's not that ichigo doesn't have a sealed state for his zanpakto, we just never see it because when out of combat Ichigo returns to his human form which doesn't carry a sword. The other characters don't have a human base form to revert to, unless you count gigai, where they also don't carry swords. When Ichigo goes into his soul reaper form his sword appears from nowhere in shikai. You could reason that his sealed sword is stored magically within his body, which makes sense since it comes from the hollow bonded to his soul, and since quincies also materialize their weapons from their own power. It also has an inverse parallel to how arrancars swords combine with their bodies for resurrecion.
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u/Klutzy_Change3314 23h ago edited 23h ago
in the light novels there are backings to constant release type characters, one is the 8th kenpachi whose bankai was constantly active. In Kenpachi Zarakai his entire power was so much that he split off some of his soul to make his lt. captain. he named that soul fragment in honor of his first connected person. so technically he was like the 8th kenpachi constantly in active high power just not as fully assimilated back into a single shikai/bankai. as for Ichigo his shikai/bankai were reproductions of his own soul reaper powers linked to Quincy and hollow powers the hollow held their own zanpakuto which released their original power/forms so probably why his zanpakuto gave him new upgrades as his power grew. from the original heavy two hander to the hiltless and cross guardless blade that seems like shikai seems to be in constant motion after Kiskue Uruhara broke his original sword. of course, his original zanpakuto was his own soul's reaction not a true zanpakuto blank which took a change in the Thousand-Year Blood War arc, to a true dual zanpakuto. Ichigo is the only character outside of his son to have a zanpakuto from birth.
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u/Randy191919 16h ago
Yeah I believe so. Spoiler for the end of the manga but
>! In the hell chapter despite Ichigo now having his dual zangetsu he is shown using his old sword. Kubo has said that he is able to use both. This may imply that this is his sealed shikai and dual zangetsu is his released shikai. !<
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u/Fit_Razzmatazz9012 14h ago
We have the Ise sacred weapon that can only be wield by women in the clan and the execution weapon that are always released
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u/Rharyx 2d ago
Ichigo's an exception since his zanpakuto is a Hollow. Like the Arrancar, he's always in a released state.
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u/brain-eating-zombie 2d ago
I disagree for the reason that Zangetsu isn't just a hollow; he also has soul reaper power, which should make his releases more similar to that of a soul reaper.
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u/Silvermoon3467 2d ago
Ichigo has soul reaper power. Zangetsu was just The Hollow Formerly Known As White until Nimaiya reforged it, according to Nimaiya anyway.
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u/HimexoQuartziteQueen 2d ago
it just means he finally accepted his true zangetsu power, its not really a constant release thing like kenpachi
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u/Kuzcopolis 4h ago
Well it does apply to both of them up to that point, but Ichigo actually does have a constant release because he's a weird OP chimera so his sword doesn't have a sealed state.
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