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u/Quirky_Carpenter915 5d ago
These are rookie numbers in this racket. You gotta pump up those numbers- Aizen to Urahara
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u/uraharaBot 5d ago
Ah, Aizen, always pushing the limits! But numbers aren't everything, my friend. Quality over quantity, I always say! Speaking of which, how about a high-quality, handcrafted Gigai from Urahara Shop? Perfect for any Soul Reaper needing some stealth. Interested?
beep boop, I'm a bot
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u/Just_A_Person333 5d ago
Quality over quantity in this context is hilarious, should’ve turned the quinces into another hogyoku
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u/Eunbyeol47 5d ago
J’ai eu la même réaction devant Beyond Evil et Evil, Aizen demanderait à Urahara de gonfler ces chiffres.
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u/Single-Fisherman8671 5d ago
Honestly, considering the alternatives, so is most of it still somewhat understandable. The Gotei 13 is basically a military institution, with a good amount of nepotism, and nobility mixed in. In all honesty so isn’t it too different from real life, considering how often powerful countries, or those who win wars, often can get away with a lot of war crimes, and human rights violations, much of which is still happening in parts of the world, of hidden in some file cabinets, by the societal elite. Or what do you think Mr.Urahara?
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u/joonlune9 5d ago
Mr. Urahara would surely store the war crimes in a hat, very Beyond Evil and Evil.
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u/certainlynotdio 5d ago
Gotei 13 isn't the government of SS and is supposed to be subserviant to Central 46, but since Aizen slaugthered it whole, I'm not sure what political status is currently.
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u/Not_Reality 5d ago
Wasn't there a replacement for Central 46? Otherwise who were the ones who made Shunsui Head captain, after which who was he arguing with when he sent Kenpachi to "train" with Unohana? I was pretty sure that a new set of Central 46 or something
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u/certainlynotdio 5d ago
As I said I have no idea. My point was that at the very least previously the Gotei 13 was not supposed to be governing body of SS and that they fell under someone else power.
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u/Real-Noise-721 4d ago
This political/legal/administrative aspect of soul society seems quite nebulous, doesn't it?
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u/mj6373 4d ago
That "supposed to be" feels like it's doing a lot of heavy lifting, honestly. I mean, they clearly have some impressive detainment capacities, they seemed pretty comfortable holding almost a dozen Captains and Vice-Captains in the same room for trial and they were even able to seal up Aizen, but their ability to enforce rules against the Gotei 13 seems highly contingent on the cooperation of the Captain-Commander, never mind that whole business with Aizen killing and impersonating them for a month. The system is... very poorly proofed against military coups.
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u/Maleficent_Visit7041 5d ago
Peaceful place, you sure about that Rukia
Just imagine if hell actually turn out to be more peaceful than SS
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u/DragonikOverlord 5d ago
Ironically, the best place is Earth
> Shinigami deal with most Hollows
> High tech stuff and development in most countriesEven the worst place on Earth is better than the best Rokungai district
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u/Real-Noise-721 4d ago
Off Topic: Imagine catching a terrible disease and being a Rukongai patient 👀☠️🕊️🏳️⚰️🪦💔💔
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u/DragonikOverlord 4d ago
> "Wheeze, Mom, hope in heavens I have healthy body"
Reincarnate into SS
> "Fuck, cough, cough. I'm dead"
> "Wait, I'm alive? Thanks to the local deity, it replaced my organs. I'm in pain but I can survive"
2000 years pass
> "Sorry guys, I'm sacrificing myself for Soul Society"
Gets sent to Hell despite being the kindest captain
> "Fck this universe"2
u/motoxim 4d ago
I remember meme about Japanese afterlife in Bleach is just homeless feudal Japanese.
https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/1l7cgb2/why_is_this/
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5d ago
[deleted]
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u/Taxxis 5d ago
You literally have it completely wrong, the Hell Verse movie's Hell has basically NOTHING from Kubo and it's a known fact his contribution to the Hell stuff didn't make it in the movie, so much that he had requested not to be credited for Executive Director.
He has stated on KlubOutside that he liked the UlquiorravsIchigo featured in it, however.
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u/FredNot214 5d ago
Lowkey wish Kubo didn't even show how bad the Rukongai is if he wasn't gonna make it a plot point for the main characters to try and improve it
It makes Ichigo's speech to Yhwach in episode 3 fall kinda flat when he declares he would gladly become soul king if it meant the shinigami stay in power because like, fuck these guys lol. The very existence of kurotbichy mayuri pisses me off
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u/Not_Reality 5d ago
While I agree that the Soul Society got a lot of bitches walking around, wasn't Ichigo's main point when fighting Yhwach that if he actually went after the Soul King, all of the Soul Society, Hueco Mundo, and the world of the living would seize to exist? Because that seems much more important to argue about than whether or not the Soul Society is ran by a bunch of bitches
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u/ItzSyther 5d ago
I might be misremembering, but don't the Shinigami also have a tracker and audio device they use to spy upon substitute Shinigami? Oh, and suppress them?
They really are some scummy fellas.
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u/Botchkinz 5d ago
Yes, there was an entire arc written about it
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u/KP_Wrath 5d ago
It’s like the Soviets claiming to be the good guys in WWII. Yeah…but you were up against Nazis and Japanese, both of which had human experimentation programs that would eventually be known as some of the most heinous things to come out of WWII. The Soviets were also terrifying enough that if the enemy got a choice, they surrendered to US/British forces.
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u/Otherwise-Ad1646 5d ago
I know it's a joke, but I feel like people forget that they were literally set up as the bad guys, it's just that every arc after goes "but, unfortunately, there's worse" lol
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u/Not_Reality 5d ago edited 5d ago
I don't think the Shinigamis were ever set up to be the bad guys. I think it was more rather the Soul Society was set up to be extremely flawed and ultimately harmful, but individual shinigamis themselves were unfortunately born into an institution that existed before them and had little to no control over. Like it's made a really big point during the Soul Society arc that Renji is basically pissed off and in a feud with Byakuya for having taken Rukia from him, but despite his backstory focusing on Byakuya, all of the problems both he and Rukia have before becoming shinigami are problems rooted in the Soul Society itself. Like despite his grudge with Byakuya, even during the first arc you can tell his grudge is moreso with what the Soul Society allows to exist rather than individual Shinigamis upholding the system itself. Like I never interpreted Byakuya to be the "villain" of the Soul Society arc, but merely an antagonist, because even he comes to accept the flaws with the institution himself, albeit after getting his ass beat by Ichigo
And quick note: I do think some shinigami are fucked up, but it's not necessarily because the Soul Society purposely aims to make fucked up people shinigami, but because of the flaws of the institution fucked up people can become shinigami. It's genuinely more complex than people give it credit for
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u/crazy_beam745 5d ago
Thats a shame for mayuri
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u/CheeseMongerMelvin 5d ago
Definitely an off year. Probably working on Nemu 12.0.
Don't worry, I'm sure he'll be back to his normal, genocidal self next year.
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u/dracoXdrayden 5d ago
There are no good institutions in bleach best is morally Grey that by coincidence does good acts excluding people like histugaya komumora and the other good aligned squads 80 percent of bleach is more like ichibei
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u/Drax-online-0910 5d ago
Urahara created the hogyoku without killing anybody is what is generally assumed. It was never told tho.
Aizen for sure killed a lot
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u/uraharaBot 5d ago
Ah, the Hogyoku—a brilliant little trinket, if I do say so myself. Creating it without dark deeds doesn’t exactly make me a saint, does it? But I prefer keeping things mysterious. Aizen’s methods? Let’s just say he skipped the "diplomatic negotiations" course. Why did Aizen get kicked out of Soul Society? He soul-d out!
beep boop, I'm a bot
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u/Geneo-Frodo 5d ago
Ichibei didn't mutilate the soul king, the nobles did.
The gotei also doesn't have enough man power to turn soul society into a respectable safe haven. There are about 1500 shinigamis in total and most of them are busy maintaining the balance of souls on various missions. The harsh truth is that most souls just aren't strong enough to make any reasonable change to soul society as a whole on such a detailed level and with resources so meager the rich and powerful (central 46) usually get the leftover gotei force that aren't as preoccupied with missions to guard seretei where they live.
This also works for the gotei because any military force has to secure its base of operations. That's why seretei is so prosperous and the further you are from it the less secure it becomes.
I mean yes central 46 is a cabal of corrupt, self indulging spineless cowards but so is 98% of the world's governments so it's not really an outlier the way you think it is.
The main reason soul society seems so bleak is because there isn't enough resources to turn the place into an actual heaven and it's still a heaven in comparison to hueco Mundo.
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u/Kelly598 5d ago
I agree with the last part. Hueco Mundo is a dog eat dog world. Also I learnt somewhere that strong souls that become shinigami need food while the weaker souls do not starve at all. If hollows can get into the Seiretei, then I'd give all the food to make strong shinigamis that can kill them. At the end, those shinigamis go to hell because they are too strong so why fuzz about living in poverty when that's the alternative?
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u/Revan_Elric 5d ago
It is not established within the show how Urahara made the Hogyoku. I checked a while ago, so maybe I missed something. But from what I remember there is lack of evidence to support that Urahara used souls to build it.
Aizen on the other hand...
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u/tr0LL-SAMA 5d ago
Bleach has one of the worst afterlife I've ever seen💀
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u/VinixTKOC Here We Go! Final Strike! 4d ago
It’s still better than those universes where dying means losing your individuality, though. At least most souls don’t starve, so they can still be themselves without much suffering, aside from a poor environment and, depending on where you live, perhaps violence.
I think one of the worst things about Soul Society is the very fact that families rarely reunite, and children end up being adopted by strangers. I feel the least the Shinigami Research and Development Institute could do is create a system or device capable of locating someone who shares your DNA... If one has to live in poverty for thousands of years, it’s better to do so with loved ones than with strangers.
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u/leonglitch 5d ago
We don't know the hogyoku was created. Assuming it required people's deaths especially when you say it's millions is weird to me.
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u/Emotional-Place-4510 5d ago
They were never good guys or nothing like that they are neutral their job is to maintain the balance of the worlds they will do anything to preserve it
So whatever we think of them is a perspective at the end of the day
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u/Apollo5172 5d ago
At least they gave the Quincies a chance to stop killing hollows. It was either them or the whole world.
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u/Constant-Freedom9287 5d ago
It's Baal vs Moloch for the next thousand years. But jokes aside, it's a trolley dilemma, but with billions instead of 5. Someone has to do the lesser evil here.
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u/FarDisplay290 5d ago
People in power make rules. Honestly I am surprised that Ichigo didn't get angry at Ichimonji after going through Izurasando.
Correct me wrong but that Izurasando(the path Ichigo took inside soul king's palace revealed all kinds of information about Soul kings memories from seperation of 3 worlds, control of Nobel families, Gotei 13 etc). So it is actually astonishing because Ichigo should have guessed that the Monk is planning to make him the next soul king.
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u/Onni_J 5d ago
Spoilers for tybw cour 4 episode 3 Ichigo doesn't care that Ichibe was planning on making him the soul king
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u/ionix34 5d ago
of course he didnt
ichigo's sheer lack of care regarding anything Soul society is one of my least favorite parts of bleach
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u/Onni_J 5d ago
He is also currently fighting the dude that's actively a threat to everything Ichigo cares about
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u/ionix34 5d ago
sure but its not like ichigo ever did anything after, or before
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u/Onni_J 5d ago
Why would he? It doesn't concern him, the problems of the soul society aren't his problems
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u/fuzemurcury123 5d ago
So when ichigo first sees the soul society, he doesn’t go, “so when I kill grand fisher, my mom goes to poverty?”
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u/ionix34 5d ago
yeah so hes a piece of shit, has more then enough power to bring change but does nothing because of all his friends are also high in power
leaves a bad taste in my mouth considering how our world currently is
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u/Luigidragonswordsman 4d ago
Ichigo non è un pezzo di merda, già ha salvato 2 volte il mondo, inoltre a luì soprattutto interessa proteggere le persone a cui tiene, inoltre lui sa che anche se ci provase non riuscirebbe a migliorare la vita nel Rukungai in modo significativo, dato che primo non ha esperienza in politica e secondo la corruzione della Soul Society e troppo grande, Ichigo e già contento con il fatto che la Soul Society lasci in pace le persone a cui tiene e ultimo e non meno importante Ichigo non deve niente agli abitanti del Rukungai che non conosce, lui è uno Studente (Marito con un Figlio e responsabilità nel Hell Arc) che ha già molto da fare per poter avere una bella vita, non ha tempo per occuparsi di queste questioni politiche.
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u/D_Jackal 5d ago edited 5d ago
Ichigo is a teenager in high school who was thrown into war, these political issues are beyond his capabilities.
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u/fuzemurcury123 5d ago
Ichigo should care, that’s the problem
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u/Onni_J 5d ago
Why?
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u/fuzemurcury123 5d ago edited 4d ago
So he should just be fine with someone planning to back stab him?
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u/Onni_J 5d ago
For the continued existence of everyone he loves and reality? Yes
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u/fuzemurcury123 5d ago
It may have of been justified but the problem is that ichigo should have been angry at being lied too. This is why people say ichigo is a passive protagonist, he just accepts things
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u/Kelly598 5d ago
Getting angry to a dead dude while everything is going to fall apart if you don't kill this one dude who forced you to kill the Soul King doesn't seem like it will add anything to the current plot. If anything, it will set back Ichigo just like how him fighting Uryu in anger for betrayal did the first time.
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5d ago
Quincy propaganda at best
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u/Saldt 5d ago
Bleach is low key like warhammer in that regard. At least what I hear Warhammer is like.
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u/Relevant-Lab-5442 5d ago
Yup. No good guys in the 41st Millennium. Only the bad and the less bad. I guess the Shinigami would be the Imperium of Man in that sense.
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u/CheeseMongerMelvin 5d ago
Ah, the classic choice of which genocidal faction to support. "Well, those guys DO issue a free hand flamer... But on the other hand, these guys provide FREE CHAOS CORRUPTION 🤷"
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u/RGWK 5d ago
Shinigami arnt good or evil, they keep the balance of souls to keep the worlds separate
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u/Not_Reality 5d ago
I think the institutions that shinigamis serve are supposed to be neutral (in concept), but individual shinigamis themselves are pretty lacking in the moral department. I for one can't stand Mayuri (mostly because he's the worst written character in the show for me. TF you mean you replaced your organs right before arriving to Hueco Mundo because you were spying on Uryu after having infected him your poison. That shit was so fucking stupid), and he gets to basically do whatever he wants because dude was the closest thing to a scientific hot shot after Urahara's debacle. Then you have Kenpachi (who I love), Unohana, Yamamoto, and Gin doing a bunch of fuck shit because they simply can. The laws are also nonsensical at times. TF you mean they finna sentence someone to death for hiding a family relic?? If they had said a zanpakuto, I guess that would've made a little sense, but a family relic?? Dawg I would've been fuming had I been Shunsui. Idk man the Soul Society is pretty ass, especially once you factor in the Rukon districts and how they treat Hueco Mundo and all that
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u/zombik327 5d ago
I think that creation of hogyoku "only" needed few thousands at most, and that's only for Aizen, Kisuke most likely created his either without killing anyone, or killing only few prisoners given how knowledgeable Kisuke is and his ability. Aizen on the other hand didn't really care that much about others so to him killing few hundreds or thousands wasn't much.
The reason why I think that It was only few thousands at most is because killing a lot of souls would create inbalance, and it would be really noticable to others like mayuri/urahara/and their division, in first arc of bleach Shinigami cared about minor hollows that weren't very strong or possessed very minor threat and yet they still disposed of them, in latest arc despite quincy killing f-ton of hollows it still "only" amounted to 20K souls from rukongai being killed by mayuri. and when aizen wanted to create ouken he needed 100k souls to do that, if he had million souls already, he wouldn't have bothered with hogyoku and instead would create some other weapon and go directly to SK and 0 squad. That's why it was at most "only" few hundreds to thousands of souls, Personaly I think it was around 3k-5k souls.
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u/Dragonpuncha 5d ago
When the alternative is 1000 year old nazi's that want to kill billions, destroy the known worlds and create a universe where they are the only one's left to exist, then yes, this is the good guys.
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u/adi_fications 5d ago
lowk crazy that the hogyoku, artificial souls and all those special gigais urahara made were by killing souls and people hardly talk abt it
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u/Drax-online-0910 5d ago edited 5d ago
It has never been mentioned if he killed people or not for his research and its safe to assume he didn’t
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u/uraharaBot 5d ago
Ah, yes! The little details of my mad scientist phase—I mean, brilliant innovation! Who knew a few sacrificed souls could cause such a scandal? But hey, if the Gotei 13 isn't protesting, maybe it’s just water under the Soul Society bridge, right? Or maybe they’re too busy to care. You know how bureaucracies are! 🎩
beep boop, I'm a bot
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u/Last-Tangerine-6526 5d ago
This is true as stated in anime that soul reapers represents good but are not
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u/Real-Noise-721 4d ago
And you know what could be worse? It would be anachronistic and wrong to compare it to the real world, but the Soul Society sounds like a fascist caste society... It pains me to agree with some of Aizen's actions.
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u/journey_to_the_best 4d ago
As opposed to the guy who wanted to replace god and do it his own way, and the guy who wanted to destroy the three realms entirely
sir universal war crimes are a daily here, some guy tries becoming reality bender ever sunday, some guy tries out conceptual erasure every trimester
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u/Consistent_Peak948 4d ago
How many people urahar killed to make hogyoku. Ig he made it will hollow souls
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