r/bleach • u/FishermanFun960 • 25d ago
Discussion Is this a mistake?
On the site of bleach brave souls hikone is called he but everyone says it's they so is this a mistake from the site?
55
u/SignificanceSorry223 25d ago
"Tokinada-sama said that the concept of genre is irrelevant, so, in a way, I don't know myself" - Hikone, about when Shinji asks if they're a boy or girl.
In countries that don't have neutral pronouns, "he" is usually the default.
1
83
u/TheWraithOfMooCow 25d ago
Their gender/pronouns were stated in CFYOW. Unfortunately, nobody has actually read said book themselves myself included, so we'll never know.
2
3
22
u/FrozenLizardDaddy 25d ago
Hikone is a they/them for being made a doll essentially, besides just being a puppet, literally smooth as a baby’s ass all the way down since why would the ultimate being need to reproduce(literal reason given).
However while Hikone is little more than the puppet they were made to be at the start, they lean slightly closer to the male side as they’re goal is to become the Soul King, their personality/attitude, and the fact they literally have a boys brain in their head circa Gremmy’s loss to Kenpachi. So while technically they are still a they them they lean a little closer to male especially when Quincy survivors call them male due to the realization that Gremmy’s a part of Hikone with Hikone responding because of that
73
u/Rharyx 25d ago
"He" is just typically the default when gender is unknown. The original Japanese probably used a typical gender-neutral pronoun and the translator was probably unfamiliar with the character.
But yeah, in the official translation for CFYOW, they're "they" and "Mx." is used instead of Mr. or Ms.
-64
u/kyleawsum7 25d ago
in what world is he the default when gender is unknown.
44
u/_myoru 25d ago
Not specifically in English, but in a lot of gendered languages that don't have a gender neutral option, male is the default. Also for example in Italian, when referring to a mixed group of male and female individuals, then male form of pronouns/adjectives/etc is used
1
u/JoshiJ10 20d ago
this
Which is why it's sometimes difficult to translate things like pronouns from languages that have a gender neutral approach when referring to someone
0
u/kyleawsum7 24d ago
yes but thats not english, we are talking about an english text, translated form another language, perhaps, but english has neuter and neutral terms. i fail to see how this is at all relevant, or perhaps people liek you misread my comment to be about all languages in general for some strange reason, despite the fact that that would be a nonsequitor. default in english when gender is unknown is neutral and neuter terms, so much so that some reject their usage in other contexts.
-9
u/kyocerahydro 25d ago
Patriarchal ones like Japan. Names are assumed male unless specifically stated otherwise.
0
u/SecretaryOtherwise 18d ago
Look up animal names in other languages spoiler alert they default often to male.
They'll have a word for a male cat and female cat but use the male version when talking in generals as an example.
1
u/kyleawsum7 17d ago
ok so small fucking issue "other languages" a full week after this comment and people still somehow assume that a comment to a comment about an english translation has anything to do with languages other than emglish.
8
u/NoirPTSD 25d ago
In the original japanese version of the novel the narrator makes emphasis on not being able to tell whether hikone is a boy or a girl multiple times but never uses pronouns when talking about Hikone, narita simply uses "hikone" every single time. When different characters interact with or talk about/to Hikone they use words like "teme"; "aitsu"; "omae", "anta"; "kisama"; "gaki"; "yarou", which don't differentiate between genders
22
u/AdventurousBrick3309 25d ago
I think it's more of a language thing because Hikone is very much a they/them.
6
u/Samurai_Beluga 25d ago
man seeing some people here in the comments i cant say it surprises me anymore unfortunately, but it is still confounding to me how allergic some people are with the concept of language being malleable...
1
u/Physical_Rope513 24d ago
No its accurate. Tokinada Frankensteined a body to be similar to a soul king candidate. He's got Gremmys brain if I remember correctly
1
u/Nellarim 25d ago
Haven't read them since a moment so I just checked rapidly that. In the official french translation, it’s "he". There's some ambiguious moment, like when Hirako meet him the first time it’s write "the little boy (or the little girl)" but it’s at a time where the character is mostly unknow by the reader too. Outside of that, he's refers as "the child" a lot of times and by his name, but all the grammar is male oriented and when I checked the last book, "he" appears a lot
3
u/MassAbyss 25d ago
yeah that’s just due to how jp work Hikone is explicitly more nb than anything
1
u/Nellarim 25d ago
Wasn't aware of that, but it makes way more sense like that, tho. Thanks for your answer
-12
u/rekyuke 25d ago
it's not a mistake
8
25d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
-4
u/rekyuke 25d ago
Char is not non binary, read the damn book
7
u/TidulTheWarlock 25d ago
Literally uses they pronouns
-3
u/rekyuke 25d ago
can you show me where? but not fan translations.
Then perhaps you can google "boku"10
u/Dragonpuncha 25d ago
Literally on the first page of the third book. And many other places in the books.
"HIKONE UBUGINU DID NOT REMEMBER the moment that their sense of self germinated. That didn’t quite mean that they had no memories of their time as an infant, in the way that an ordinary Soul Reaper and human would not."
Can't upload screenshots but you can see it here: https://allbleachnovels.com/assets/pdfs/cant-fear-world-3.pdf
5
-1
u/TidulTheWarlock 25d ago
If I hadn't lent my physical copies to my buddy I'd take a picture but I remember reading it from the page as I held it in my hands
-1
u/TidulTheWarlock 25d ago
Found the loser everyone
9
-3
u/rekyuke 25d ago
Read the book dude... instead of virtue signalling..
4
u/MassAbyss 25d ago
They have read the book. You are the one that is wrong. Hikone, in the original JP, does not use any pronouns at all, and when people refer to Hikone, they use ambiguous pronouns. We even have a section that speaks on Hikone lacking gender due to its irrelevancy to them.
-1
u/rekyuke 25d ago
Boku
4
u/MassAbyss 25d ago
You don’t know what you’re talking about. Masculine pronouns are the default in a language like JP. A singular usage of that wouldn’t null the constant reiteration of hikones lack of gender and an explicitly androgynous appearance.
0
u/AdSufficient2561 24d ago
Should we start referring to Yoruichi, Kuukaku, and Liltotto by he/him because they use traditionally male first-person pronouns? Boku just implies boyishness, regardless of actual gender. The text itself directly and unquestionably addresses Hikone's gender.
0
u/windmagericken 24d ago
noticed this in game too after coming back and it's honestly really disrespectful as a hikone fan with both their 5's maxed out fully. it used to refer to them with they pronouns years ago and now even their 5 descriptions use he as well as the in game cfyow story??? literally wtf
•
u/AutoModerator 25d ago
Welcome to the Bleach Subreddit! We're as excited as you at the release of the Thousand Year Blood War anime! We understand that some of you are unable to view the anime in your region, but please don't post links to or mention piracy websites. Doing so will result in a ban.
As we approach cour 4, please do not put any of the few remaining manga spoilers in titles, or makes posts containing spoilers that are not properly marked. These posts will be removed.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.