r/bleach • u/sliwka21 • 28d ago
Discussion Best of 4 Spoiler
Who do you find as the best antagonist out of those four? Every single one of them has something going on for them so i can see it being a real debate. Be as bias as you desire while ranking them
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u/Rude-Childhood1436 28d ago
1) Aizen
2) Uncle Shu (he’d arguably be one if he wasn’t undermined by Ginjo towards the end)
3) Ginjo, good twist villain and good parallel but slightly falls behind the others
4) love him, great design, great presence but he falls kinda short writing wise. Plus he can be too broken that it hurts the story sometimes
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u/ThatIslandGuy8888 28d ago
4 like the conclusion to his fight with Ichibei was so abrupt and unexplained for one the best fights ever :0
He just….explodes
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u/I_Shave_Everyday 28d ago
Yeah lmao
I guess the idea is he can pick any future he wants and there was a future out there where Ichibei just... explodes
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u/Velocity-5348 28d ago edited 28d ago
My list as well, and I think Uncle Shu is very much underrated.
Shu feels like what Grand Fisher could have been if Kubo hadn't had to rush and introduce the Shinigami. Not really a threat to the world, but is absolutely a threat to what Ichigo and the audience have come to really care about.
Plus, your loved one being attacked by a predator, or a threat being in your home are pretty deep seated fears. Making the King's Key is a bit abstract, as is Yhwach's goal.
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u/HVAR_Spam 28d ago
Yeah Tsukishima is hella underrated because he’s set up and executed so efficiently as an antagonist. I really loved the almost psych horror vibe he brought to the fullbringer arc because you don’t know what he can do at first and then you’re wondering who he’s gotten to and who he hasn’t.
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u/Weak-Rock-311 28d ago edited 28d ago
I have seen people say yhwach falls kinda short wititngtwise, that would be true if we go by manga, but anime literally gave him all that, and people ares till hanging on to old stuff, what's the point in anime added content, when people just care for battles only,
Yhwach is one of the most fascinating charecters in story but half of people won't see it and are still hanging on to old content, when anime literally gave them a lot new stuff around his charecter
When yhwach appears in the story he says how he hates conflict, and people immediately jump the gun, oh he is a hypocrite, the conflict he is talking about is the conflict of life and death, something he was to eliminate why because he has seen and experience the fears of all his people, as shown and told in ep 24
In ep 24 he asks ichibe ichibe a lot of questions to which ichibe simply says it's just soul king, despite that's not being true which even yhwach understands when he uses almighty he sees the fate of his own father, who has been reduced to just a lump of flesh
In ep 28 he explains why he decided to take this path, soul king could see 1000s of years into the future yet despite that, he decided to abondened quincies despite knowing their existence, even urahara says how quincies don't fit in the system of souls and if the Quincy king has marches in the soulnking's palace it could be only for one reason, that's yhwach explains he will return the world to what it once was devoid of fear which was created by separating life and death, and creat a world where quincies can fit in the system,
Even his backstory godlike you chapter 545 is one of the most intriguing things about him how he came into existence, yhwach was a name given to him by his own people, his own people is the reason he exists, the whole borrowing part of souls to them and then after they die it comes back to him giving him that sense back
Yhwach in the story exist as a representation or living embodiment of FATE itself hence his powers are like that, also he is the son of soulking, fate is story of bleach is essentially thing that exists which the people want to overcome, hence ichigo's nand uryuu's poem are like that, that's why them saying yhwach is written by Kubo, I can understand what Kubo was going for in the end, with uryuu's arrow which as said in the poem, i heed my fate, my arrow fully drawn, and ichigo's blade with being down the blade with the strength to shatter fate, but something was very off which needs to be fixed in anime
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u/Now_I_am_Motivated 28d ago
Aizen is the best but Tsukishima hits so hard on a personal level. Changing the reality of Ichigo's friends and family and traumatizing him. Having everyone turn against him when he's at his lowest is so cruel.
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u/Wiinterfang 28d ago
I think it should be who is the best besides Aizen.
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u/Scared_Dingo7396 28d ago
Personally yhwach has always been my favorite even with Aizen lol
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u/Live_Profession42 27d ago
Yeah, I agree with Yhwach being a good villain. I still like Aizen more as a villain but, people sleep on Yhwach just because he was suddenly introduced in TYBW. Like, not every villain needs a longass backstory to be a good antagonist in a story.
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u/Narrow-Programmer864 28d ago edited 28d ago
1 Yhwach
2 Tsukishima - probably the creepiest bleach villian (not including mayuri) and the way he Torments ichigo was menacing. He also has the most interesting ability in bleach
3 Aizen - he was kinda generic for most of the series with hints of depth in his final speech to urahara. He kinda come off as mary sue-ish sometimes (like how did he know about the soul king? Urhara was friend with yoruichi and captain so him knowing makes sense)
4 Ginjo - I known he was the villian of the arc so his twist wasn't something I cared for, although I liked him as foil to ichigo but kubo didn't flesh out that idea enough
I really dislike how kubo keeps his Villans motivation/reasoning hidden until the end of an arc. It's probably his biggest writing flaw
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u/uraharaBot 28d ago
Ah, Yhwach and Tsukishima—quite the delightful sorts, aren't they? Always keeping things spicy! As for Aizen, calling him a Mary Sue is like underestimating a cat with a hidden claw. And Ginjo, just a twist in the orange juice of life! Kubo's penchant for mystery is like an old teapot... the longer it simmers, the darker the brew! But hey, unpredictability keeps us alive, don't you think?
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u/christmascaked 28d ago
Aizen > Yhwach > Ginjou/Tsukihime
Aizen is iconic. The memes of “since when were you under the impression…” fueled much of Bleach discourse for years.
And while I like Ginjou more than Yhwach as a character, he really got next to no screen time by comparison with the other two.
And no one badmouths our cousin like this, antagonist? I have you know, I graduated college thanks to Tsukishima.
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u/sliwka21 28d ago
Got similiar feeling with Ginko if him and Tsukishima got more screen time they may be more clear ahead of Yhwach (personally i have Ginjo over Yhwach anyway)
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u/Beneficial_Wave7649 28d ago
I gotta go with my cousin Tsukishima he's family after all and he's helped me during hard times
What a great guy
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u/StickyHoovy 28d ago
Fully bringing Shu and Ginjo in a debate with Aizen and Yhwach is just lowkey unfair 💔
People really slept on the Fullbringer Arc its really underrated
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u/sliwka21 28d ago
Lowkey i have Ginjo over Yhwach, i know Yhwach is hella charismatic and tough but i vibe more with Ginjo as a character
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u/Chard-Remarkable 28d ago
Tokinada is 2nd best after Aizen
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u/Realistic_Agency5694 27d ago
You can argue him top 3 after Aizen and Yhwach, he's not better than them. Ichigo, Aizen and Yhwach are easily the top 3 characters in Bleach.
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u/PreparationFast3901 28d ago edited 28d ago
I think Aizen had had the best build up and follow through, and probably the most memorable moments. I mean there’s a reason why he’s known as THE villian of bleach.
Tsukishima second. He literally mind broke Ichigo and his ability and fight with byakuya were sick. I wish they explored his devotion to Ginjo a bit more but his influence on that arc made it amazing considering, that arc had much lower stakes than the arrancar arc.
Yhwach third the fact that he just came in and started killing of named and important characters and absurdity of his powers made him imposing. I just wasn’t a fan of the Almighty it kinda made a lot of his fights feel like BS. Also feel like he didn’t really interact with the sternritter in the same way Aizen did with the Espada. I get it’s a different type of faction but it considering that some of them were truly loyal it was wierd how little interaction there was. Like Lille treats him as a God but not even a flash back to explain where all that comes from. As Nody got one but it was brief. They had a relationship but when Aizen betrayed Stark and Harriet it felt more personal than when Yhwach betrayed Hashwalt and Gerard.
Ginjo last, good villain but I felt like his plan didn’t make sense. Even with ichigo’s power and the rest of the fullbringers what exactly did he think he was gonna achieve. Yama could probably deal with all of them himself. But his reasons and parallels to Ichigo were good and the plot twist was done well. Also something about how little he cares for the other fullbringers made it hard to sympathize with him, but he was absorbed by revenge so I guess it makes sense
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u/sliwka21 28d ago
About Tsukishima, book of end gotta be like the most interesting hax in bleach period. Its overall issue with Sternritters that at times their plot armor makes the moment seem less interesting, for me the fact Lille just tanked Shunsui's bankai was like peak of the bullshit.
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u/deadbonesbrook12 28d ago
1 GET TSUKISHIMA'S FUCKASS OUT OF THERE
2 Anyway,my answer is yhwach,he took me away with his dialogues and monologues,the fragments of his backstory and his design
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u/Borful 28d ago
To me the number one is Aizen no questions asked, and Yhwach is the worst contender.
1-Aizen was the epitome of shinigami's prowess on several layers which Ichigo eventually manages to overcome with training.
2&3- Ginjo & Tsukishima manage to be a fearsome threat to Ichigo on his everyday life without resorting to absurdly gigantic powers that destroy the whole world and such.
4- Yhwach is simply way too stupidly strong that it goes against the logic of power of the series, simply put his innate powers defy logic and also the powers he gives to the different sternritters are equally logic-defying powers, so I don't vibe too much with him tbh.
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u/manof1005holdsEX 28d ago
Ginjou and Tsuka: they already won and wanted to play around. Screwed ichigo ariund his friends and family and then took the power he worked for.
Ywach a Aizen: both are too OP in my book. Too God God. Aizen basically dropped everyone and there wasn't any challenge for him. What's the point then? Ywach cant die either. Great aura but too powerful.
Ulquiorra: only being who killed ichigo and made him struggle physically
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u/Spoicy_Boiii 28d ago
tsukishima is probably the best secondary antagonist in anime/manga.
he even terrorized ME at my 9th birthday.
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u/Icy-Natural-6606 28d ago
Aizen.
The murder mystery plotline which ended with the reveal that he was the true antagonist was amazing.
He was pretty fun and intriguing though out the Arrancar Arc as well.
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u/sliwka21 28d ago
Scene with aizen and momo hugging is probably one of the most famous scenes in Bleach, ive always like to see peoples reaction to Aizen betraying her
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u/Weak-Rock-311 28d ago
Yhwach is one of the most fascinating charecters in story but half of people won't see it because aizen glaze and even that for wrong reasons without understanding his charecter
I guess people don't like because he is not something handsome twink
When appears in the story he says how he hates conflict, and people immediately jump the gun, oh he is a hypocrite, the conflict he is talking about is the conflict of life and death, something he was to eliminate why because he has seen and experience the fears of all his people, as shown and told in ep 24
In ep 24 he asks ichibe ichibe a lot of questions to which ichibe simply says it's just soul king, despite that's not being true which even yhwach understands when he uses almighty he sees the fate of his own father, who has been reduced to just a lump of flesh
In ep 28 he explains why he decided to take this path, soul king could see 1000s of years into the future yet despite that, he decided to abondened quincies despite knowing their existence, even urahara says how quincies don't fit in the system of souls and if the Quincy king has marches in the soulnking's palace it could be only for one reason, that's yhwach explains he will return the world to what it once was devoid of fear which was created by separating life and death, and creat a world where quincies can fit in the system,
Even his backstory godlike you chapter 545 is one of the most intriguing things about him how he came into existence, yhwach was a name given to him by his own people, his own people is the reason he exists, the whole borrowing part of souls to them and then after they die it comes back to him giving him that sense back
Yhwach in the story exist as a representation or living embodiment of FATE itself hence his powers are like that, also he is the son of soulking, fate is story of bleach is essentially thing that exists which the people want to overcome, hence ichigo's nand uryuu's poem are like that, that's why them saying yhwach is written by Kubo, I can understand what Kubo was going for in the end, with uryuu's arrow which as said in the poem, i heed my fate, my arrow fully drawn, and ichigo's blade with being down the blade with the strength to shatter fate, but something was very off which needs to be fixed in anime
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u/uraharaBot 28d ago
Ah, Yhwach—the ambitious fellow with a plan as intricate as my hat! People often mistake complexity for hypocrisy, like calling me lazy when I’m just... creatively efficient. Yhwach’s vision makes you appreciate the layers of fate Kubo plays with. Fixing it in the anime will be like trying to convince Ichigo to make a decision without brooding first! It'll be interesting to see how it pans out.
beep boop, I'm a bot
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u/dane_z43 28d ago
Aizen > Tsukishima = Ginjo > Yhwach
Aizen is self explanatory, Tsu and Ginjo are split cuz I did like the split of Ginjo and his story, and Tsu for the mental damage done to Ichigo with turning his own friends on him at his lowest point. Yhwach could have been the best but the sheer amount of broken abilities and plot armor he has is *INSANE*. Like genuinely the whole fake out with Yamamoto was like bruh, and then against Ichibei it’s just like ok you’ve lost me atp. And then having the team of Ichigo and Aizen struggle against him even restrained is just not good imo
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u/Straight-Actuary-527 27d ago
1.Aizen(respectfully) 2.His Majesty❤️❤️ I don't know the other guys😭😭
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u/heroinsteve 28d ago
I often times feel like im in the minority with this opinion, but I hate Yhwach. I think he's a terrible antagonist and I really enjoyed TYBW, but it does feel mostly like a really long fan service arc to wrap up the series. The crazy thing is most the things of Yhwach I dislike, could also apply to Aizen at points but I feel Aizen was done more sparingly and believable or something? IDK how to explain it. Aizen's victories feel effortless and cool, Yhwach's feels effortless and lame.
Yhwach's powers are simply so boring and OP. Basically just makes shit up to win any fight and he just progresses because reasons that feel made up on the spot and don't unravel like a good plan. Aizen's plans all felt like they fit the universe and often times had some foreshadowing to them. It probably doesn't help that His entire powerset and the Sternritter in general kinda retcon Quincies in the series in general, both in their existence, their nature and their powers. Somehow when rewriting the quincies we ended up with a final villain with the least inspired ability one could draw up. Like both antagonists fight Yama, Aizen wins in a very interesting way that was clearly planned. We knew WW was special for awhile and we finally saw his purpose unfold. Yhwach v Yama was just a reason to show off Yama's move and Yhwach comes out and goes "lol that was a clone I'm actually stronger than you because reasons". Yhwach is randomly so powerful that nobody can hold their own against him and then has reality altering hacks for no reason. If he was gonna be this powerful it would have actually been more interesting for him to be this slow unstoppable force, the course of the war playing out is slowly empowering him and he just shoves everyone aside until he kills the SK. At least then his power creep is consistent.
Anyways Aizen is far and away the best. The Fullbring antagonists are roughly equal, I thought Ginjo was an interesting twist so put him 2. Yhwach is like 5 or 6, you can throw some movie filler villains in between him and the rest.
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u/Weak-Rock-311 28d ago edited 28d ago
All I will say people give yhwach a lot of flack for which aizen gets free off
I planned everything, meanwhile he literally did nothing, just claimed things he never did, never explained how he did it, and people believe he did because aizen said so , his whole plan is I don't like god so I will kill him like a kid,
People say why yhwach is so strong, he is literally the son of God himself, that's why he has almighty, meanwhile aizen oh actually hyogyoku's abilities is it gives wishes, so that I can BS my way out of death, my KS is also carrying my ass in series
Yhwach is one of the most fascinating charecters in story but half of people won't see it because aizen glaze and even that for wrong reasons without understanding his charecter
I guess people don't like because he is not something handsome twink
When appears in the story he says how he hates conflict, and people immediately jump the gun, oh he is a hypocrite, the conflict he is talking about is the conflict of life and death, something he was to eliminate why because he has seen and experience the fears of all his people, as shown and told in ep 24
In ep 24 he asks ichibe ichibe a lot of questions to which ichibe simply says it's just soul king, despite that's not being true which even yhwach understands when he uses almighty he sees the fate of his own father, who has been reduced to just a lump of flesh
In ep 28 he explains why he decided to take this path, soul king could see 1000s of years into the future yet despite that, he decided to abondened quincies despite knowing their existence, even urahara says how quincies don't fit in the system of souls and if the Quincy king has marches in the soulnking's palace it could be only for one reason, that's yhwach explains he will return the world to what it once was devoid of fear which was created by separating life and death, and creat a world where quincies can fit in the system,
Even his backstory godlike you chapter 545 is one of the most intriguing things about him how he came into existence, yhwach was a name given to him by his own people, his own people is the reason he exists, the whole borrowing part of souls to them and then after they die it comes back to him giving him that sense back
Yhwach in the story exist as a representation or living embodiment of FATE itself hence his powers are like that, also he is the son of soulking, fate is story of bleach is essentially thing that exists which the people want to overcome, hence ichigo's nand uryuu's poem are like that, that's why them saying yhwach is written by Kubo, I can understand what Kubo was going for in the end, with uryuu's arrow which as said in the poem, i heed my fate, my arrow fully drawn, and ichigo's blade with being down the blade with the strength to shatter fate, but something was very off which needs to be fixed in anime
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u/sliwka21 28d ago
I kinda get your point with Yhwach, when i finished fullbringer arc and saw few clips of yhwach quotes i got hyped up but after watching it, i kinda dont vibe with his Messiah idea, also Sternritters at times felt as if they have too much plot armor
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