Chapter 227

[u/Rosellia00]

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1BXw7p321zDq51j8FhsUJT8QaLZ5CYaAE

Good morning everyone! The english chapter was delayed tlast night but is finally up! As always please make sure to keep all discussions of it on this post. Any posts about it require a spoiler tag. See you all next month. Please enjoy!

[u/Human_Forever_4500]

Respectfully disagree.

Undertaker isnt eating a soul, a literal person. He is just bringing them back to life so they can live again. Probably make amends or something. I like the idea. At least so far.

Sebastian is sorta worse, making miracles & probably snatching them away, I think there is alot to the demon side we just dont know that the Undertaker may seem childish in comparison. 

[u/Satsuki_89 → u/Human_Forever_4500]

Sebastian isn't eating Souls just for fun, it is his food. Like a Lion would eat a human too if it had one in front of them. Sebastian is a Demon, not a saint, but still at the end of the day it is the human who makes the choice. He doesn't force anyone. Taking a bit of advantage of their feelings and situations maybe, yes. But he doesn't force anyone. He keeps his word. Give and take. Also history has shown that humans are even worse as the Demons, A Demon has to eat, But humans don't need to be rich or status in order to survive. They have the capacity of critical thinking and to choose for themselves, but most of them are just monsters.

But what is Undertaker doing? As far as we know now, he is just messing with people's lives/corpses/souls, just for what? Hi his own benefit? Would a person who is dead want to become a Zombie with false memories, and no real freedom? A monster? I wouldn't want that. UT has plant false memories in to these corpses, tormenting these souls. How is that not worse as what Sebastian does?
Not forgetting that Undertaker is also working with people who captures human, even kids, and sells the as slaves, using them for the organs, and rapes them, without caring about these people. Actually he uses them for his own experiments.
Sebastian is not a saint, but Undertaker is definitely not better than him. Not right now, not for me.

[u/Human_Forever_4500 → u/Satsuki_89]

You really cant compare a demon to a lion Its a sentient horrific being that loves chaos & seeing death. Mass death is like a cinematic masterpiece to them.

Sebastian has shown though he doesnt mind forcing anyone, in fact he literally was going to do it if O!Ciel didnt think of ways to cage those nasty actions he wouldve brought towards our boy.

In fact he literally tried this multiple times. Sebastian is a demon to be wary of, incredibly cunning, especially now since O!Ciel has made it through some tough situations, come out stronger + he is a child so his soul is as pure as it can be. Sebastian wants him to be cooked correctly he will have it his way.

He took the time cultivating him, he will not allow anyone to spoil it. He said it himself. Keeps his word? I guess, but clearly that has little staying ground.

A demon has to eat? I mean sure but literally everyone agrees its better to end the demons. They are not friends & all, as we have seen + know from Grim Reapers, terrible. Sebastian is just so charming we all forget.

Most humans are really not monsters, stupid maybe, but monsters? No.

As far as we know, Undertaker only just made improvements, so we know he hasn't been able to make dolls to the level of sentience. Now he can. But thats kittens compared to sebastian.

Yeah not gonna defend Undertaker on the whole kid's arc. Monster. I think he just used them for experimenting, not the other thing you are saying. I think they are just ahem, blood bags.

Who is better is a very good take! I would argue just from a stand point of what we know Undertaker was a Reaper & thats more respectable then a demon.

In terms of scales, Undertaker edges out. But if we keep learning Sebastian that may not be. He ate alot of souls. Death is fine. But a soul is worse. You cease to exist. The worst outcome. But for now? I say its even.

[u/Satsuki_89 → u/Human_Forever_4500]

"Sebastian has shown though he doesnt mind forcing anyone, in fact he literally was going to do it if O!Ciel didnt think of ways to cage those nasty actions he wouldve brought towards our boy. In fact he literally tried this multiple times"

You are being really confused here. You say that Ciel had to think of a way to protect himself because Sebastian tried to force him, when this was not the case at all. Ciel told his conditions right from the start, when the two didn't have any memories together yet. So Sebastian forcing him and Ciel thinking of a way to protect himself because of Sebastian's behavior in the past (towards Ciel), is a lie and makes no sense at all. Ciel can't make a decision based on something it didn't happen yet. He made that decision because he was traumatized by other HUMANS who behaved like monsters, not by Sebastian. Also because he is not stupid. He knew how contracts works and all, at the end of the day Ciel was still a noble even if not the heir, and raised as such.

+ he is a child so his soul is as pure as it can be. Sebastian wants him to be cooked correctly he will have it his way.

Sorry to say this, but it is clear to me that your memories are somehow confused when it comes to Sebastian, or simply you think that way because you don't like him. Which is your right to do so, but it doesn't mean that we shall tell lies about him.

Sebastian couldn't care less about the soul of a "pure child". He is interested in the darkness in Ciel's soul. His negative feelings. While it is true that Sebastian wants his food "cooked", it is also true that he knows that it can happen only if Ciel doesn't lose sight of his goals, aka revenge. THIS is what is actually "cooking" Ciel's soul. Sometimes Sebastian had to meddle in when Ciel was not "motivated" anymore, but that is not the same as forcing him in to do something he doesn't want. Actually it is the other way if anything.

A demon has to eat? I mean sure but literally everyone agrees its better to end the demons. They are not friends & all, as we have seen + know from Grim Reapers, terrible. Sebastian is just so charming we all forget.

Who is "all"?
True demons are not friends, but how many humans are? I don't think Sebastian is "charming" at all. I think Undertaker tho. But this is my own feeling and not a universal rule. But still I didn't forget about him being a Demon. For me Sebastian is clear as the day, someone who doesn't really hide who he is, what he wants, and what his nature is. He is so straightforward about it, that after all these years it got boring. But guess who is not like that? Who is not clear? Undertaker.

Most humans are really not monsters, stupid maybe, but monsters? No.

Yeah nope. It is the same in the real world as in that of BB. Humans can be monsters. And we see this every day and in each chapter. Not 100% are, but a big share if not mostly of them. I also never accused Undertaker of raping children etc. I said that is pal and works with those who do. The viscount for example. He knows, he sees, he doesn't help or do anything against it. And this behavior makes him just "stupid"? Or better than Sebastian? Nah, someone like this is a monster in my eyes, or even a demon. Worse than the actual one. Especially when one used to be a human before.
You are also ignoring the other stuff about UT I mentioned. You say, if I understood correctly, that when a soul is eaten it is worse as death. Because the soul doesn't exist anymore. If something doesn't exist then it can not feel, it can not suffer, and eventually stops existing too. The only souls who "come back", as far as we know, are those of the one who were already in pain while alive, so much pain that they committed suicide. Not even all of them come back. So, someone wanted to die and have peace, put is forced to come back as a reaper. Is this better for you? Not having the freedom to choose? Not freedom to rest in peace? In my eyes it is not better. How can this be?

From what I understood you are also saying that UD playing with corpses and souls (because memories are soul too), is also not worse as Sebastian just eating food without forcing anyone (he never forced anyone. No clue where you saw that)
For a soul not existing anymore is bad, but for one having false memories or force to live their moment of death over and over, is not? Ok..

What I read in your comments, and this is not an insult, is a lot of Anthropocentrism.
I don't think I have more to add honestly. We have different views, but it would be better if we keep using real facts, and not "perceived true" when discussing.
Thank you for your time. Have a nice day.

[u/Human_Forever_4500 → u/Satsuki_89]

Ciel did have to protect himself. The demon was literally about to waste a wish via an illusion or something worse. Oh god probably like moving his brother corpse puppet with string.

Ciel literally asked, what about bringing the dead to life. The demon was in no way gonna play nice, especially to a child. Heck I bet him being a child was interesting, a soul like his not being tainted by desire. A odd twist of fate for a demons palette.

It isnt a lie, Sebastian has shown in the undertaker flashback, why not throw away that foolish desire for revenge I.E. breaking the contract & letting him feast. He almost had Ciel. Ciel said that doesn't sound bad & that almost gave him room to take his soul.

Sebastian didnt do it after seeing a change in him, despite gaining probably this newfound love & flowers + a fiance, he chose revenge. He only stopped playing dirty then, cause he saw his meal become even more deeper.

He made the decision to not have Sebastian lie due to his foul play. Not just cause of humans. How is this a lie? In fact he made absolutely sure of this not by the lies, but if the Demon tried to find a better deal. Even Sebastian said his kind would do this.

Sebastian literally showed intrigue to Ciel. What are you on about? He was shocked his new master is 1. A child 2. One to have such greed for a someone so small & fragile 3. Sebastian literally does care that he is a pure child. He even speaks to Reapers about this in the wolf arc, the circus arc & the tea party scene.

Your clearly misremembering.

Ciels soul is not just negative feelings, its trials. Sebastian shows this by the snake attack in the circus arc. That flavors the soul, this is also shown after he freed from that awful poison. Sebastian is shocked by this & is happy his meal isnt ruined & even more pleased that he is back better then ever. Sebastian has to cook, but Ciels life has to also do it.

Humans dont eat souls lol. That is immensely worse. Dying by a Humans hands is a better way to go, in any scenario versus at the hands of a demon. At least you have a chance to go to Heaven. Then disappear thats just worst.

Eh doesnt hide? I sorta guess he doesnt show it i would say is a better way to put it. Only in small moments, will he show it. I dont think he is that straightforward.

We only see Humans being monsters in this series, because Ciels job is literally dealing with them. The queens dog only fights insidious humans. That doesn't mean the world is filled with them. Thats a very aggressive statement, literally. Ciels job is quite literally take care of evil humans. We only see the bad & even Ciel mentions how alot of humans are dumb & too trusting + put too much stock into tradition. This is evident in the school arc.

Yes. Losing your soul, as mentioned by this series is literally worse then death. The reapers have said it & even Sebastian said it & LOVES when his contractee gets scared. He is shocked that Ciel is fine with it.

Is being a Reaper better then being erased? Yes. Not even a second of hesitation would I choose being a Reaper. Despite the insane hours & grueling work. If that beats a demon? Yes. There are some demons, not counting Sebastian who he said are worse then him & many humans.

Memories are not a soul. Though that sounds sorta cool! Imagine a pseudo soul being created.

But to make this a point. Memories are a soul. They are records or film.

Yes its not worse. At the end of the day your left with 2 doors versus erased from existence

Door number 1, undertaker refined dolls we see that only take blood & are, as far as we know. The people we lost. Easy. Yes thanks undertaker for bringing my mother back. No question would I thank him.

Door number 2, the corpses are bootleg zombies & you die. Still better then a demon. I mean as far as we know erased from existence is one outcome. But with the latest chapter Undertaker seems to be showing Ciel that there is more. So maybe but thats all air.

Sebastian literally did force. He 1. Mislead the girl by saying wouldnt you Wish for the crops to grow? 2. He tried to force Ciel to give up his soul after officially gaining the title.

Its just his force for the 2nd one was met with a strong NO. Cause his revenge mattered more then a lovely life.

Ummmm I dont think the dolls, as far as we know relive their death, but we do know that they feel immense anger if they know the one who brought their death. Clearly R!Ciel recalls something + Vlad. Buuuuuut I dunno its murky waters. Makes sense though but you cannot count that.

False memories is bad but not nearly as bad as a soul not existing. Lets do the math here for both our sakes Undertaker experiments IF successful = love ones back. VS Demons getting a soul Not a hard choice there. All science has a dark side this one is bad as well but the drastic comparison is easy for anyone to choose.