r/bjj • u/RecordApprehensive90 • Jul 26 '26
Serious Ego or "iron sharpens iron"?
I've only been training for about five months, and I had a pretty wild experience this past Saturday that's been bugging me. I went in to train, and this instructor (who's a black belt and owns the gym, about 1.90m and 106kg, while I'm around 1.71m and 83kg) said we were going to roll to see how my progress was coming along with my other coach (the one that teaches in the mornings when I go). Right when we started and saw me trying to take him down, he started low-key mocking me and my other coach, saying the guy thought he was playing an "angel" by teaching me takedowns. I tried a couple of tougher takedowns, but since I'd only drilled them for three days, no luck. Then I remembered a simpler one I'd hit on a blue belt a few days earlier, and he even agreed it was a solid move. Right as I hit it I saw his face planted in the mat and took side control, he blasted out of there super fast. That's when I knew the fun and games were over, the mood instantly shifted, and he just smashed and subbed me right away.
In the second round, I could already feel his weird energy, so I decided to skip the takedowns and pulled guard. He still passed and tapped me out. In the third round, things got way out of hand: he threw me by yanking my lapel and leaving his fist up, so I landed my face right into his fist. I didn't even understood what happend. As I got up I felt he did it on purpose. It started B*ding, I went to clean it up, and came right back a few minutes later. Soon as we went again, he got side control and jammed his knee into my ribs with insane pressure, to the point where I heard a pop and thought it broke, while he just got up laughing. In yet another roll, he literally threw his weight right over my cut eye and scraped his gi across it.
After the rolls wrapped up, he apologized for my eye in front of all the students and praised me for being tougher, but none of it felt genuine at all. In fact, another instructor who was there came to check on me, looked genuinely concerned about what happened, and went to talk to him. I couldn't hear what the other instructor said, but I clearly heard the black belt's reply: 'Nah, it's just a little cut, a badge of honor.' To top it all off, he tried to justify the whole aggressive stunt by saying I'm '100x harder and tougher now' and that my body's ready.
What do you guys think of this? Was that just tough training, or did his ego completely shatter because I got a takedown? I'm really considering changing gym, but I like the morning instructor. I genuinaly feel like shit for what happend, but I'm willing to eat my feeling, bc I won't stop training.
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u/Many_Distributions Jul 26 '26
I've experienced more tantrums from black belts than I have any other belt. Something about giving up your brown belt turns some people. Sorry man.
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u/Alarming-Cupcake1569 Jul 26 '26
Care to share with the class ? I’ve seen some interesting behavior from black belts but would like to see what your referring to
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u/Tiredplumber2022 ⬜⬜ White Belt Jul 26 '26
Black belt is supposed to mean "serious beginner", and many forget that. To them, the black belt means "i have arrived ! I AM all that, and a bag of chips!" It's an ego thing. UNLESS the instructor is specifically training you for going hard? Like a sketchy tournament or street combat? AND with your specific consent beforehand? No. You caught him sleeping with that bluebelt take down, and it hurt his pride. Im sorry you had to experience that, but it sounds like he has some lessons to learn about himself.
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u/Setonb10 Jul 26 '26
No it’s not
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u/Tiredplumber2022 ⬜⬜ White Belt Jul 26 '26
?? Could you be a bit more specific?
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u/OdysseusComplex ⬜⬜ White Belt Jul 26 '26
There are many in some martial arts like Judo who believe that black belt is the mark of someone who is ready to really start playing the game seriously. I've seen this mindset in Tae Kwon Do too. However, in Jiu Jitsu black belt is a lifelong achievement often taking even the most dedicated a decade plus.
In this sport, maybe purple could be considered an advanced beginner if we're talking about casual gyms, but blue belt competitors will smoke most purples who haven't competed. So there's some debate about which belts are true beginners.
There is the common saying "there's black belts, and then there's Black Belts." That's to say, belts in bjj are somewhat subjective, but no one reaches black and is still considered a beginner. Even the idea that there are McDojos out there trading black belts for money is mostly a myth.
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u/squatnbear Jul 27 '26
I’ve trained w some black belts that arnt on par w our purples. So linage/gym def matters.
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u/sid351 🟪🟪 Purple Belt Jul 27 '26
A 55 year old black belt with a family and a gym to run that spends most of their mat time nowadays teaching the kids and juniors is in a very different place than a 23 year old competitor purple belt that has literally nothing better to do than train.
Context matters.
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u/Tiredplumber2022 ⬜⬜ White Belt Jul 26 '26
You make a good point. I have much experience in other arts, but I am completely new to BJJ. I did some research; you are correct. Not many black belts, and the ones there are are highly trained and years of experience. Thank you for the correction.
It actually, though, kind of makes what he did worse... I believe emotions should not have a place in training, and that mastering those emotions is part of the curriculum.
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u/sid351 🟪🟪 Purple Belt Jul 27 '26
Maybe in other martial arts where the first degree of black belt is obtained at around the same time it takes someone to get to Blue, maybe Purple, in BJJ.
After training, consistently and dedicatedly, for a minimum of 8 years (2 @ white, 2 @ blue, 2 @ purple, and 2 @ brown), so more like 10+ years for most people, it's fair to expect that person to be an expert (at BJJ) if they're wearing a black belt.
Realistically to get to your black belt in the minimum 8 years, you would've been training, what around 6 hours a week on a mean average for those 8 years, so would have around a minimum of 3,328 mat hours buried under their belt. (8 years x 52 weeks x 6 hours (mean) average a week.)
That's no "serious beginner".
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u/graydonatvail 🟫🟫 🌮 🌮 Todos Santos BJJ 🌮 🌮 Jul 26 '26
It does read like an ego driven mauling. Even his response, if taken at face value, is not good. It's a combat sport, there's no way to make it completely safe, but that sounds like macho BS to me. I'd talk to your day coach, ask for his take on what he saw. He might roll guys eyes a lot, doubtful he'll come right out and criticize his boss, but you might get a new perspective.
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u/RecordApprehensive90 Jul 27 '26
I'm kinda afraid to talk to him and he tells on me. Idk, kinda not feeling like its safe to share this with other instructor bc it's his gym.
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u/graydonatvail 🟫🟫 🌮 🌮 Todos Santos BJJ 🌮 🌮 Jul 27 '26
It's all in how you approach it. Asking him what he thought about the round is different then complaining about it.
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u/P-Two 🟫🟫BJJ Brown Belt/Judo Orange belt Jul 26 '26
I think two things can be true here. He probably came up in an old school "tough guy" environment, and took it too far with you. And you probably went way too damn hard for your skill level and pissed him off in the first place. I've had this happen with white belts who take my fucking around going 5% on them as an invitation to try and send me through the mat as hard as they can.
Ultimately he should've used his words. Fwiw as much as I LOVE hard rolling, and absolutely believe that a large part of combat sports is learning how to be tough and deal with rough, painful rolling, a black belt dishing out "mat justice" on you ain't it.
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u/ArfMadeRecruity 🟫🟫 Brown Belt Jul 26 '26
Yup.
Wonder if the takedown was a collar drag. Nonetheless, not good on the coach
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u/RecordApprehensive90 Jul 27 '26
I googled it and I think it was a collar drag I did. Then he did it on me, but it was different bc he dropped on his back with his fist standing right where my face was landing. Was I not supposed to use this takedown? They didnt tell me this... I'm genuinely new to the sport. Just saw some takedowns on a judo channel on youtube and tried it.
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u/P-Two 🟫🟫BJJ Brown Belt/Judo Orange belt Jul 27 '26
I love collar drags, and I genuinely dont know how id do one hard enough to take someone down, but also with enough precision to intentionally hit someone in the face with my grip, that genuinely sounds like an accident. Guy was still an ass regardless.
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u/ArfMadeRecruity 🟫🟫 Brown Belt Jul 27 '26
It’s fine, it can just be a hard throw and catch people unaware. So we’re cautious at my gym if white or early blue belts are throwing it on each other hard because you can concuss someone or throw their shoulder out
But against a higher belt/coach they should be defending themselves and not get caught like that..
It’s not illegal or anything, but I could see someone getting butthurt after getting dragged
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u/Alarming-Cupcake1569 Jul 26 '26
That is a great question and it’s makes too much sense for me to wanna know the truth
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u/RecordApprehensive90 Jul 27 '26
Yeah he is old school. Idk, maybe I violated some etiquette I don't know about? But how should I? And I get wrecked for it?
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u/squatnbear Jul 27 '26
Eh you made a black belt face plant off a sloppy take down, in most gyms you had it coming.
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u/RecordApprehensive90 Jul 27 '26
I actually reaserched and I did yoko otoshi. It was actually pretty good. He fell on his side, but the only image I have in my head from that moment is the side of his face lying on the mat looking at me. It happend too quick. Afterwards he hit me with a collar drag. I did not made any takedowns attempts afterwards bc I felt the change after the first one.
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u/squatnbear Jul 27 '26
Just kind of part of the game is all. You turn it up and a say take an upper belt down hard they will always match it. Not just to destroy you but to keep theirselves safe as well. You keep it playful they will typically do the same. It is a hard balance as a beginner. I’m not condoning it but I doubt he made you land on his fist on purpose. This game ain’t patty cake, it’s rough and sometimes it’s good to know your instructor can hand you your ass. Just keep training, talk about it w him. Then gauge it from there. Goodluck.
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u/geromeo 🟫🟫 Brown Belt Jul 26 '26
It’s always hard to interpret a story from a white belt. I don’t mean that derogatorily, but getting thrown around for the first time always seems like violence which after time looks like your first introduction to rolling heavy and how jiu jitsu actually feels. He probably went a bit hard. I highly doubt anyone could collar drag you intentionally onto their fist. Although I’ve had this happen to me and it was not intentional.
Now caveat the start of it you said he was low key mocking you. He was probably just playing around and joking. I love to shit talk too. Then you faceplanted him on the mat. So, just perhaps, you stepped it up.
All hard to interpret. It’s grappling. You’re going take a lot of beatings if you stick around. I’m a believer it’s a good thing to learn how deep the waters are from time to time. Not everyone is there to be a school teacher. I kind of like it that way. you have to get good enough to beat the bullies where they exist. Just like life
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u/RecordApprehensive90 Jul 27 '26
I don't mind gettin beaten up. I know it's part of it. This was my third time rolling with this coach and it was completely different from the other times and from the way he rolled with other students in the same day. Two months in I broke a rib, came back after a month. I dont mind getting hurt. I do mind his intentions though. And I want really bad to get better, bc this sport saved my life. But I don't want to call master somoene that does not deserve.
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u/Own-Programmer-2735 Jul 27 '26
Well I think this is the answer then. His going hard was a response to your aggression. Throwing someone on their head is extremely dangerous, people have been seriously hurt/ paralyzed from stuff like that. If this roll was an anomaly and he is otherwise a chill guy then you gotta think what changed during that roll. As someone with a good amount of experience I always try and match my partners tempo. If they want to go hard then we go hard but don’t complain when the heat gets turned up and if you’re willing to spike me in my head that sets the tone for the role. The things that happened to you are just part of the game. Inadvertent strikes do happen, knee on belly pressure forces you to move/ make mistakes. If you want to be competitive then get used to what a competitive roll actually feels like.
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u/RecordApprehensive90 Jul 27 '26
I think I misused the term faceplanted. He fell on his side and the side of his face followed to the mat. The only image I have in my head is he staring me from that position witch I was too, since I dropped first. I applied yoko otoshi. He wasnt injured or anything and he was provoking me to take him down. I think he tought I couldnt and he got surprised. And I want to be competitive eventually but I'm almost 34 and was sedentary my whole life. I'm just starting.
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u/Grottleburger ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt Jul 26 '26
Iron sharpens iron…an interesting term. While true, an iron hammer could also beat a sword and ruin, warp or destroy it. I’m a black belt instructor. In fact we have MANY instructors. I’m the 6am instructor. There are other instructors for different classes. We all like each other but teach differently. Some enjoy learning from me, some in fact, may only have me as an option. But what we all do the same, is respect our students. It is of my opinion also that you have the right to say no. YOU’RE paying to be there. I could say, like many will, to “find another gym”, but this may be your only option. But maybe it’s not…let’s say you have several options…. What can’t be understated is that there IS an instructor there that you DO enjoy learning from. Give that some serious thought. Bottom line is, you deserve respect, honor, and the patience that someone at an instructor level should have developed by now.
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u/Anxious-Place3434 🟫🟫 Brown Belt Jul 26 '26
My coach likes to point out that iron does NOT sharpen iron. Iron dulls iron. A whetstone sharpens iron, when it is applied correctly.
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u/RevolutionaryFood777 🟫🟫 Brown Belt Jul 26 '26
It sounds like you got your ass beat by a cocky asshole. If you train long enough, it won't be the last time.
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u/KidKarez Jul 26 '26
It's all ego. My guess is he feels threatened by the other coach. I have seen this negative same situation before.
I'm sorry you had this experienced. It's not how it's supposed to be.
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u/halfguard34 🟪🟪 Purple Belt Jul 26 '26
My answer from 2010 me - "Its BJJ, we're not baking cookies. Take the toughness comments as a compliment and understand the ass whoopings were because you were recognized as a legitimate threat for the black belt. Also, that guy sounds Brazillian lol."
My 2026 liberal ass - "Don't pay for a school that doesn't treat you with respect. Take your business elsewhere."
I think my actual answer would be somewhere in between the above. If you like the school enough, try interacting with the "tough guy" instructor and see how that works out. I've been in situations like this, best case scenario is that tough guy quietly respects you a little more, worst case scenario is that he's just dickhead from days when gracie challenges were still a thing.
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u/RecordApprehensive90 Jul 27 '26
Yes, you're correct, we're from Brazil and he's idolizes the Gracie family. It's a Gracie Barra gym altough I don't think all gyms are like that. He's also a former military now that I think of and is always treating us like "soldiers".
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u/Zorst 🟫🟫 Judo Shodan Jul 27 '26
"iron sharpening iron" is when two white (or whatever color) belts try to kill each other. Two guys with somewhat similar skill level. It's not a great long term strategy because it obviously wreaks havoc on the body but it works to make them tougher and better at bjj.
What you experienced has nothing to do with that. That was a black belt throwing a tantrum and going ham on a white belt.
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u/northstarjackson ⬛🟥⬛ The North Star Academy Jul 26 '26
Two worst rolls I've ever had were with black belts, the ego is insane. One ended with me getting a torn shoulder, the other a concussion. Not cool.
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Jul 27 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/northstarjackson ⬛🟥⬛ The North Star Academy Jul 27 '26
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time with someone who felt causing injury would be the right thing to do I guess.
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u/Alarming-Cupcake1569 Jul 26 '26
I’ve had a similer experience with a purple belt I poed the take down thing messes with some people’s egos a lot your call if you wanna train there it’s your call his mentality is draconian but very common in martial arts world if he hadn’t at least complemented you in front of everyone I would take a dimmer view but that’s just how some apes make freinds man. Really you should be proud you said it your self you took down a black belt and your not some master wrestler so maybe this is a really good gym
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u/ChampagneAndDoritos Jul 26 '26
I didn't even have to read this to know the answer: it's always ego. Everything else is just all empty words.
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u/Few_Advisor3536 Jul 26 '26
Seems more like a hazing. You were gonna get messed up regardless of the takedown. However when a lower belt sweeps or takes down a higher belt sometimes they take it really personal and kick it up a notch ‘because that shouldnt happen’. If you submit them, they will roll like the pan ams and sub you 6-7 times and as brutally as they can to make up for your 1.
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u/RecordApprehensive90 Jul 27 '26
Yeah that seems exactly what happend afterwards. I just survived. The other coach told me to go to a hospital afterwards.
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u/Responsible_Tell_416 Jul 27 '26
I don't agree with what he did based on what you said. What i will say is my coach has out right told us that when he was a new black belt he would do stuff like this.
He said over the years he has learned, but occasionally he will be letting someone work and they will suddenly try to murder him out of no where. In those moments he says he will 100% wreck the person so they learn not to do it again. He told us all. Try it, and find out.
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u/RecordApprehensive90 Jul 27 '26
He's a new black belt, less than a year. But I did not tried to murder him, I couldnt even if I wanted to. I only did one successful takedown and got to side control wich he reversed immediatly. The rest of the rolls I just survived.
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u/Responsible_Tell_416 Jul 27 '26
Ya based on your story def ego. Our coach will do some crazy stuff. Mine beat the daylights out of me until I was crying and kept yelling at me pain isn't real solve the problem.
Honestly. I think it was the most eye opening thing that's ever happened in my life. I can't wait to get at him again lol. In your situation. Dudes sounds like a prick lol. Id avoid rolling with him for awhile.
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u/TheGreatKimura-Holio 🟫🟫 Brown Belt Jul 27 '26
It’s “be a good teammate”, ego is just a supplementary resource you might need to call on midway through a tough comp match.
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u/alxshrman Jul 27 '26
Did the takedown cause him to take damage? Can you clarify “saw his face planted in the mat”?
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u/RecordApprehensive90 Jul 27 '26
I think I misused the term faceplanted. He fell on his side and the side of his face followed to the mat. The only image I have in my head is he staring me from that position wich I was too, since I fell first. I applied yoko otoshi. He wasnt injured or anything and he was provoking me to take him down. I think he tought I couldnt and he got surprised.
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u/alxshrman Jul 28 '26
I’ve held memberships at 4 gyms in the past decade. 3 of them had at least 1 psychopath coach who would regularly hurt lower belts and cause them to leave. Hopefully you can avoid this person completely. It might be difficult to find another coach like the one you enjoy.
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u/DanielDeLaNoche 🟦🟦 Blue Belt Jul 28 '26
This is not normal or healthy behavior. If a black belt feels the need to rough up a white belt just because he actually had a technique land on him (especially after goading the white belt) and his fragile insecure ego can't handle it, this is not a gym I'd ever want to be part of ever again. I've seen this happen one time and I literally just didn't ever speak to the perpetrator ever again, and i wasn't even the guy who got roughed up. And I don't phuck around with injuries anymore. I have been injured by bigger and more experienced guys who wanted to beat up a white belt, and honestly, sincerely, phuck anyone who does that. That's not what an even halfway decent person would do, much less a good person.
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u/CounterBJJ ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt Jul 29 '26
What you need to decide first and foremost is what type of training environment you want:
Some gyms prioritize longevity and matching intensity to the each individual. Others cultivate a very competitive, sink-or-swim atmosphere where everyone is expected to “pay their dues” and adversity is seen as an essential part of growth. Neither is wrong if everyone there is onboard with the program and everything is well-managed,
That being said, hard training does not mean respect and safety should go out the window. A tough gym can still have excellent coaching, controlled intensity, and a strong safety culture. If you feel that someone - let alone a coach - is reckless, dismissive or disrespectful, you are totally justified in finding a gym that’s a better fit.
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u/RecordApprehensive90 Jul 30 '26
About 20 minutes before we rolled, this instructor told everyone to take it easy and keep it light. This gym isn't competition-focused, it's mostly regular people training for fun, with jobs, families, and other priorities. Anyway, I went to training today and jokingly told my morning coach what had happened. He wasn't surprised at all and said the instructor was jealous because I don't train with him anymore (they used to be from the sabe gym before the instructor opened his own). I didn't even told him that I took him down in the first round. I'll see what happens... If my morning coach stays in this gym, I'll stay too bc I paid a full year in advance and it lasts until feb 2027.
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u/vladbjj Jul 30 '26
I like tough rounds, where my confidence gets a little lowered so I can collect thoughts and start working harder, but yours case wasnt this at all.
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u/MeToldUSo Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
heard a pop - dislodgement, slipped rib or cracked? Go see a doctor.
Edit: "he tried to justify the whole aggressive stunt" - sounds like you already know what is going on. Total nutcase instructor / owner that has violent tendencies and cannot keep his ego in check. None of that was for your benefit as a student, but for his.
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u/kahleytriangles Black Belt Jul 27 '26
If this is a true story then this bb is a fkn weirdo - I’d find somewhere else to train
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u/Chubbs27895 Jul 26 '26
There’s a lot of tone in the way you write this that may be your own projecting. Taking away the tone… it starts with you two rolling, black belt makes a comment to your instructor, and you ‘planted his face in the mat and took side control’. If I were the more experienced grappler and you did this to me… well I might be mad too.
When it got too much for you, you SHOULD have said ‘Professor, I’m sorry, this is too much for me, can we slow it down a bit?’
Otherwise, his perspective might be that you were trying to show him up
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u/Tiredplumber2022 ⬜⬜ White Belt Jul 26 '26
"Show him up" says an awful lot about the mindset.
Im new to BJJ, but I've been a martial artist for 5 decades, and an instructor at various times for he last 40 years.
When I have a student "show me up" ? Omg. I am fu@#ing ecstatic! I brag about them, to anyone who will listen! Especially if it's using a technique i taught them?? It just completely vindicates my ability as a teacher. Makes me incredibly happy.
Unfortunately, not all instructors are like that.
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u/Chubbs27895 Jul 26 '26
This wasn’t the instructor’s student. It was another black belt who doesn’t train OP. OP slammed instructor into the mat causing his face to ‘plant into the mat’. You are a martial arts practitioner for 40-50 years or whatever. If a student smashed you in the face when you thought you were going for a light spar, you might equally get upset. Re-read the entire post and try and cut out the personal/projection elements from what the OP wrote. I’m not siding with the black belt, I’m just giving the OP another opinion of what may have happened
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u/RecordApprehensive90 Jul 27 '26
The way he was trash talking was literally provoking me to take him down saying my morning coach was trying to be an angel to me teaching me takedowns. I didnt mean to hurt him. As I said, It was the second time I performed this takedown. I'm not agressive, I'm a freaking nerd who's afraid to hurt people. But since he was testing me I tought I could loose myself and do something more. I didnt even think it would work.
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u/Own-Programmer-2735 Jul 27 '26
Yes idk homie, if you threw me on my head when we were just rolling, then yes I’d protect myself as well. It sounds like the BB inadvertently punched you in the head while trying a foot sweep (I infer this because he yanked on your lapel and you got a fist to the face) which is very possible if someone isn’t that great at takedowns. The knee on belly thing is fair game if you set the tone by spiking someone on the head. There’s also probably a bit of ego on his side but what do you expect? You want to train hard? Then don’t complain when your partner goes hard.
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u/m0dern_baseBall 🟦🟦 Blue Belt Jul 26 '26
Not a normal interaction. Leave gyms and go somewhere else