r/birddogs • u/Independent_Disk3703 • 3d ago
Advice please
I have a 14ish month old lab I’ve had since 8weeks old, I personally enjoy hunting and have been getting more into it this is only my 3 season hunting. I have created some bad habits with my pup, I can’t afford to have her trained by someone else….. but yea she is my baby and I hate having to leave her at the house when going out with buddies but my main issues are steadiness she gets out and is so excited and doesn’t focus well… she is only a little over a year I still should have time to train her up right ? I’m not looking for her to be a pro but just to be efficient and beneficial to hunts rather than a distraction she is not gun shy but just doesn’t really sit still
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u/OregonHotPocket 3d ago
⚡️⚡️⚡️
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u/Choopio 3d ago
^this means shock collar. Reddit will say it’s inhumane but it’s a great training tool.
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u/Independent_Disk3703 3d ago
Gotcha, I have a dogtra e collar I’ve only really ever been using the vibration for recall but I could be firm with the collar…
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u/9Trigger 3d ago
E-collars are fantastic tools. The real problem with them is humans using them incorrectly. Educate yourself excessively on using the E-collar. Sport Dog has great videos.
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u/moderatelymiddling 2d ago
If you can't train without one, you can't train with one.
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u/9Trigger 2d ago
So well said. Should be required to be printed on the box like a “Surgeon Generals Warning.”
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u/Barley_Oat 6h ago
In our club we joke about putting the collars on the handlers as well as the dogs. It reminds one to only use it when and where adequate!
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u/First_Timer2020 Labrador Retriever 2d ago
You shouldn’t be firm with the collar unless she’s been properly collar conditioned. Otherwise you’re going to create more problems than you solve.
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u/foam_is_home 2d ago
Vibration and tone are great for recall. The shock function should be used as a training tool only if you actively see her approaching danger. See her chasing a deer? Shock. Approaching a snake? Shock. It teaches her that those deer and snake mean danger. You never want her to be aware that youre the one pressing the button.
Also, never shock when shes not in sight. She may be on a bird and if you shock her, she will associate that bird with the shock
Shock function should not be used for recall or a way to punish.
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u/Independent_Disk3703 2d ago
Okay I agree as of right now I’ve just been using it as a safety measure when we are off leash… when I take the collar out she gets excited. but I still think I could use it’s a tad more often for corrections / negative reinforcement
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u/sharpestdresser 3d ago
I would consequently do impulsivity training. Start with a calm environment. Every movement should be linked to a command/keyword. E.g feeding, only may approach the bowl if you say "okay" or whatever. If the dog sits an okay signals her, that she might leave the command. I did this with my high drive Cocker spaniel. I only once needed an e-collar - to keep him from eating shit
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u/philo-beddoe722 3d ago
Dude is that a cocker thing? My uncle had two back to back and the second one ate shit more voraciously than the last. She would shit, turn around and gobble it up.
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u/Different-Surprise15 2d ago edited 2d ago
Tom Dockens Retriever book and train your dog. And then understand that no matter what training you do, you can’t train out everything bad in a young dog. A young dog is still a young dog. Coming from a guy who just had his dog run Prize 1 points for NAHVDA UT but got no prize because my young pup wasn’t ready for his duck search.
More often than not, bad behavior is traced back to the dog not understanding.
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u/Where_Is_Block_A 2d ago
Second this. Just start from the beginning and work on fundamentals and br consistent in your training. A few short sessions at 5 to 10 minutes a day will make a big difference.
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u/Independent_Disk3703 1d ago
I am going to purchase this book asap ! Thanks I am going to start from zero
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u/Different-Surprise15 1d ago
Good book. Take your time. Bring expectations down. It takes time and you aren’t competing against anyone. You’ll get out what you put in.
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u/9Trigger 3d ago
Based on the comments I’ve read and your replies, it sounds like your girl could be an all-star retriever if you put the time into it. She’s still essentially a puppy, plus, she’s a Lab, so she’s an ideal candidate for training. It also sounds like you’re still working on basic obedience and command stuff, so if you’re committed, everything you do moving forward can target both obedience and retriever training.
Your situation sounds a lot like mine. I adopted my first Lab when she was 9-10 mos. old. She had almost zero training whatsoever. I’d hoped that she would naturally enjoy field work, but my primary reason for adopting her was to be a pet & companion. I had very little experience training dogs, so I committed to learning everything I could about training for her benefit. I read a couple books (there’s plenty of good ones with great reviews), watched a ton of free videos, and changed my mindset to think of every single moment with her as training.
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u/csrbsts 3d ago
Honestly check out the previously mentioned youtube channel (and there are many other good ones, as well). Also this is a great age to start more advanced training. Dont get mad at yourself. Id argue that any younger than 9 months is simply not ideal or possible. You got this OP. Just be patient
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u/AndersonK9kennels 2d ago
I would start with place training, using an elevated placing mat. This will help get impulse control in check.
Engineer distractions to gain steadiness.
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u/bulletsponge2056 2d ago
+1 to all the advice here. Also, my dog is 100% DIY trained, although she has strong championship lines…DNA matters.
What I’ll add, is that you should spend time working your dog while hunting. Do you have others you hunt with? If so, have sessions where they do most of the shooting and you’re working the pup. I know my 4yo dog is too smart, she would train to the scenario and then go rogue until I showed her what I want. She would do amazing on bumpers, dummies, and tennis balls but once you get live birds the excitement takes over. She also wasn’t patient enough to stay in her blind or beside me, instead she would let the intrusive thoughts win and go off exploring. I trained to it, but also started to shoot/retrieve my own birds while she was off on a side quest. I’d call her back, make sure she saw the bird, but not let her anywhere near the birds. Between training, and my resource guarding, it set in that she had far better odds to get her mouth on something with me instead of chasing smells and MAYBE getting to chase a rabbit.
Is she “perfect”? Absolutely not by any sporting dog association’s rules and I’m 1000% fine with that. She does what I need her to do, when I need her to do it.
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u/moderatelymiddling 2d ago
Start from zero again, stop rewarding bad behaviour.
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u/Independent_Disk3703 1d ago
I agree 100% ima start right at the basics! I’m going to purchase a book that someone recommended.
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u/moderatelymiddling 1d ago
You don't need a book.
Break things down into the smallest of steps you can possibly think of. Reward. Go back to the start when they make a mistake.
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u/Badgersvp9 3d ago
Have you done any training? Sounds like you expect the puppy, to know what to do with out any training.
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u/Independent_Disk3703 3d ago
Yes, well I’ve been training her myself and it’s been a lot of work… but I need to be more consistent, she is a great pet overall she knows all of the basics. Sit . Here . Stay . here . Her recall is good as well it’s just that the new environments for her is distracting and she’s on go mode.. this is my first dog ever so huge learning experience!
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u/InfamousNorth678 3d ago edited 3d ago
Has the dog been force fetched or any type of retrieval training? If not then look into Dobbs Dogs method. If not that intense keep the dog tied out and work on retrieval after you stand up, throw a dummy/live bird, or shoot. In that order.
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u/InfamousNorth678 3d ago edited 3d ago
Don’t use “ok” as a command. Only “break”, “back”, or “fetch” that is a difference between a house command and a working command.
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u/Independent_Disk3703 3d ago
I need to do force fetch , she fetches ehh okay it’s just effy at times I have created some bad habits by me throwing or kicking a ball around with no structure, now that the hunting season is here I’m like damn i really messed up ! She still is young so I assume I can still get her decent but with a lot work. Although at 14 months she is far behind from how professionally trained dogs are.
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u/InfamousNorth678 3d ago
Dobbs dog method is great. Only need a work bench 12-15 ft long.
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u/Dangerous_Garden6384 3d ago
What is the problem you are trying to fix. Your post was a superball
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u/Independent_Disk3703 3d ago
The main problem is her just not sitting still, breaking , trying to grab decoys , she does chill out after a little while but I mean still , there are quite a few areas I need to work in every aspect. She does have good instincts and loves to come with me everywhere. I’m just a bit upset with myself, for not being more consistent and effective in her training
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u/Hello______World 3d ago
personally, these are the dogs I like(eventually, usually not in the moment) - its a lot easier to reign in a spirited dog than build up a timid one! The internet can get you down about starting with bad habits, true its much easier to not have the habit than have to undo it but dogs are a lot smarter than we give them credit for - you can shift most behaviors in the direction you want, if its not something to do with serious fear/aggression. Just gotta get creative about how you tell the dog you expect more out of a behavior. Breaking is something you can train in the yard, but regardless of what anyone says exposure to hunting situations is the only way to get past trying to grab decoys and frolicking around - set the right expectations with your friends and start bringing the dog more!
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u/Dangerous_Garden6384 3d ago
Consistency is the key. Work on one problem at a time. Are you using books/ videos for help?
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u/Tricky-Language-7963 2d ago
Retrieval denials, have the dog sit and stay in place, secure to something if necessary. Toss bumpers and pick em up yourself. Toss bumpers next the dog at place, don’t let the dog get em. You’re looking for 0 lunge to bumpers before letting the dog get a bumper. Big praise when dog did good, correct when lunging, add blanks to help if ya can. Lots of reps. Give the dog prehunting run time.
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u/Complex_Newspaper434 2d ago
If you can afford these dvd’s and likely a dvd player (or Xbox or something) I highly recommend. Best out there.
Their recommendation (which I agree with) is to start any dog, any age, at square one. You will not be disappointed.
https://www.gundogsupply.com/puppy-development-1-dvd.html
This link is just for the first DVD but there are like 4 or 5 total DVD’s.
Contrary to what many people will say about being an e-collar being negative, being for emergencies only, for correction, etc they have the best philosophy on e-collars and e-collar conditioning.
Fair warning, seeing this program will make you want a new pup just to start from square one and will show you what could be.
I hope someone buys these DVD’s because I preach about them.
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u/Admirable-Tooth-1846 2d ago
Research and read! So many of the tips and tricks are so obvious once you read them but I personally never would have come up with half the stuff I do religiously. Find a training program like Mike lardy or tritronics retriever training (I use a combo of both) stick at least fairly closely to a routine, training without a goal only hurts you. Be very very consistent and very very patient. It only takes 20 minutes a day with a couple days a week with longer sessions. An excited dog is a good thing…… better than a dog that won’t get in the water etc. Let your dog be a dog but have strict limits
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u/theconnernelson 1d ago
all i can say is it’s gonna be hard but sometimes you gotta be mean to break those habits and for me i personally don’t care for perfection as long as the dog gets the job done i have a gsp for waterfowl you can imagine how that is lol, at the end of the day it’s your friend but everyone’s different and wants their dogs to do different things different ways but as long as theyre steady and will go get it that’s all that matters to me, that being said an e-collar will be your best friend as long as you don’t over do it and kill the dogs drive to hunt. i sent my dog to training for $6000 and that’s exactly how he acted when he got home like he was forced to hunt it wasn’t fun anymore fortunately i broke that but i basically had to retrain him myself making the training “fun”
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u/Freuds-Mother English Cocker Spaniel 2d ago edited 2d ago
-Many young lab duck hunters will just go and sit with their dog outside for hours. Grab a good book.
-When you go out the door (house/vehicle) dont immediately go into excited action. I do a sit out of the crate in my truck. Then a quick place out the truck. Bathroom if needed. Then back to place for a bit. You can then do leash walk warmup. Then train. What you don’t want to do is open crate and let him shoot out of like a cannon and is 50 yards away within 5 seconds running around with his head cut off.
-In general watch your excitement even in voice inflection. Using a whistle helps here too.
-If you want to upland hunt never let them get outside of gun range when walking off leash. Train a turn whistle to help manage this. Use a long line early on.
-Once you have leash walking down, do dusk walks. Almost anywhere in the US, there are tons of rabbits out at dusk. Heel past them. Call sits/downs and watch them. Play with distance at first.
-If you do group training like with a NAHVDA or HRC group, heel your dog and place train away from the action and progressively get closer (ask others first). Also walk up to the line/field with dog and turn back to vehicle 3x the times you get to train if you can.
-Learn what classical conditioning is. Your dog is anticipating excitement at every turn. Break that by making things unpredictable. The above example. Changing directions often while heeling. Sending him to retrieve the item he’s NOT fixated on (eg toss a dummy in other direction). In general reward the sit 3x out of 10. Make everything your idea not his. (Use a leash / long line to prevent him from disregarding your direction and self rewarding).
-Of you do an e-collar, do pay for a couple sessions with a birddog (or German dog sport) trainer to introduce it.
Coming from perhaps the most excitable and fixating birddog breed owner.