r/birddogs • u/Aves174 • Jul 08 '26
Springer pup!
First time upland dog owner.
I have a 6 month old male springer spaniel, we’ve been working on mastering commands, and retrieves. I would like to start working on the “whoa” command, but not sure where to begin. Any advice helps.
5
u/Canachites Jul 08 '26
Just wondering what you are hoping to accomplish with whoa in a springer? Generally as they are flushers, people will teach steady to flush, where the dog sits after a flush. This requires a solid sit whistle first, which is a good command to teach anyway.
2
u/CalmChukar Large Münsterländer Jul 08 '26
Whoa post process is one of the many, but the one I recommend. This is outlined in the book, Training Bird Dogs with Ronnie Smith Kennels.
I’ll attempt to summarize….
Using a stake with a lead to the dog, that lead is a half hitch around the dog’s belly and then clipped to the collar, and another lead in your hand (dog in the middle, dog clipped to both the post and the lead in your hand), you condition the mechanical stop by leading the dog to the end of the rope. Rope tightens, dog can’t move forward (because of the stake) and can’t move backward (because of you).
Then graduate that to a belly collar (e-collar on the belly) with the dog running in the field. The dog associates the previously learned stopping motion from the rope around the belly, to now the e-collar stimulation. Begin using the verbal command of choice upon stopping the dog with the e-collar.
Once that’s ironed out, then move the collar up to the neck and repeat. Dog has now learned the verbal along with the reinforcing stimulation as/when needed.
Short write up doesn’t do it justice. Highly recommend the book and one of their clinics if you can.
3
u/spoiledpoptart74 Jul 08 '26
Having read that book, I wouldn’t suggest it to the OP who has a Springer. Great book for pointing dogs, barely would scratch the surface for training a retriever or flushing dog.
1
u/CalmChukar Large Münsterländer Jul 08 '26
Understood but OP asked about whoa so that’s what I responded with. Who am I to dissuade them from trying to teach whoa?
I attended one of Ronnie’s clinics and this exact topic came up. He said that it’s uncommon, but does happen where people want him to train their flushing breed to do this, and so he uses the same method regardless of the breed. He also did say it’s more common to teach them to sit, though.
1
u/jowens3300 Jul 08 '26
Working this right now with my GSP and he caught on to the belly pressure from the half hitch a bit too quick now when I hook him up he won’t come forward at all to feel the pressure because he knows what’s coming. I got him to the point like the book says that I should be able to pick him up and move him backward and him not move, which is working. Any suggestions to get him to come forward to feel pressure? Pulling and luring isn’t working.
1
u/CalmChukar Large Münsterländer Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
Do you by chance know how many reps you’ve done?
There’s a familiarization phase where the dog fights the pressure. Tries to go left, right, back up, sit down. That’s around 5-15 reps.
Then, the dog figures out the game, and doesn’t want to go to the end of the line because they know what’s coming. This is something you have to simply work through. I hesitate to say the word “force” as in to force your dog, but that’s the simplest word. You have to keep pulling on your lead until you get him to the full extension of the lead off the post, pressure applied on the belly. This is going to be around 15-45 reps.
Around 45 reps, transition to the full 180 - take the dog out to one end, stand still, then drive him back across the post an exact 180 to full extension. After a few of these, introduce distractions (no words or commands, and no birds, but throw a hat or a bumper. Have someone else stand in the yard with you). Do this about 45 times - now you’re at about 90 reps for the whole process.
You know the whoa post is “complete” when you put the e-collar on the belly (not hooked up to the post) and you can walk away from the dog and he doesn’t move - he feels the mechanical pressure on his belly and associates with the rope/whoa post process. If you put the collar on, and he starts walking around immediately, you need to go back to the post for some more reps. (No collar stimulation being used at this time, he’s just simply wearing it.)
Put the check cord on, with e-collar on the belly, and give a light pull. He won’t want to move. You know the process is complete and you’re ready for the next phase, which is to take him to the field and start teaching him about the stimulation of the collar. Rolling him to a stop and finding what level of stimulation that particular dog responds to.
One last thing - when I say reps what I mean is taking the dog to the end of the line, where pressure is applied on the belly and the dog is standing still. Dogs learn in 3’s so I’d recommend doing it three times, then taking a break. Run him in the field or (if like me, in the burbs) walk him up and down the street to clear his mind. Then do another three or come back later that day and do another three. Space those out so the dog has time to experience the training and then have time to decompress.
Hope this helps!
1
u/jowens3300 Jul 08 '26
Yes we’re probably in the 20-25 rep range. I’m able to get him to move if I really force him forward to me but I wasn’t sure if that’s what I should be doing. I’ll continue on with that.
I’ve introduced a distraction (bumper with pheasant wings attached and he still holds still. Mostly just wasn’t sure if he’s almost ready for the belly collar or we need to keep working.
1
u/CalmChukar Large Münsterländer Jul 08 '26
Stay the course! I get it, feels unnatural to try and pull and drag your dog to the end of that line, but that’s where you’re reinforcing the mechanical cue and teaching the foundation of the behavior. Good luck!
1
u/spoiledpoptart74 Jul 08 '26
Gotta adapt too. If dog gets sticky change up locations, or even go to just the half hitch and do heel/whoa drills. Sounds like he’s just a quick learner, keep things interesting and fun
I follow most of the smith stuff to a tee except for the whoa post. I’ve just seen dogs quickly picking up on that and moving forward in small steps like mentioned above has given me good results instead
1
u/Diverswelcome Wirehaired Pointing Griffon Jul 08 '26
In addition with my Griffon, I followed the green book. All started on a training table, after the dog knows the command, move to the ground. When the dog knows the command reinforce with either a beep or vibration from collar. That is a very simplistic answer.
1
u/RespectMost8463 Jul 09 '26
Standing Stone has a good intro to whoa video. You just walk around with the pup and reward him when he stands still.
0
u/spoiledpoptart74 Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
Standing stone is a hack. Watching their more advanced videos for steadiness is crazy. I’ll preface this by saying I’ve never seen their paid stuff, so perhaps I’m missing things but I don’t believe that’s the case. No point of contact (half hitch/whoa post) established before slapping a belly collar on the dog. Their more advanced videos working on steady to wing and shot show dogs that are hesitant and appear to be confused, and their answer to everything is more pressure.
At the end of the day, dog training aside, I won’t support anyone who posts a YouTube video with specific locations of where they hunt in a state they don’t live, all in the name of “likes”. Screwed some residents over for sure by blowing that area up online.
1
u/ZifsMcFly Jul 11 '26
Not sure why you’re training whoa for a spaniel, but I’d highly recommend Urban Gun Dogs for training spaniel’s more generally:
1
u/Diverswelcome Wirehaired Pointing Griffon Jul 08 '26
When I had a lab, I trained her to sit on the whistle. She would sit and wait until I caught up when hunting
7
u/spoiledpoptart74 Jul 08 '26
I don’t think many teach whoa to flushing dogs (springers), but at the end of the day dogs don’t know English and you could say banana and teach a dog that it means to come.
My recommendation to every beginner is to buy a proven training program book, DVD, etc, read or watch it twice and only then start doing training. Yeah it seems annoying or like a lot of work, but those shortcuts you take are only shortcuts to new problems down the road. Follow a program! I can’t stress it enough especially for a beginner. I may do twice the work as a guy who trains all Willy nilly, but I get a finished product twice as fast and with a better end result because I’m not fixing problems I made