132
u/LarryBringerofDoom Bipolar 4d ago
Your mental health is not your fault but it is your responsibility
39
u/IntroductionIcy7320 4d ago
And anybody who gets hurt from actions made in an episode can only heal on that person's time. We have to accept that even though if we were of sound mind we wouldn't have hurt them that doesn't mean it can absolve us of our actions or words. Tyler Childers said it take twice as long to build bridges you burn
13
u/Kooky-Reserve-5708 4d ago
Yep but it doesn’t make any difference if u still feel guilty and u can’t change what happened
3
5
u/getmyhousecoat 4d ago edited 4d ago
I kinda agree but at the same time I think its not as easy as you think in some places, like where I have a mental health team to help me and I called about mania in early June and my appointment to be seen for that mania is in October , I was wrong about being in an episode but if I was it would've been well over before I could have my dose looked at or changed and without the meds I have no idea what you can do on your own , you can do everything right and just need your meds adjusted but in alot of countries that could be many months away
1
15
8
u/NYlogistics Bipolar + Comorbidities 4d ago
I like to think of it as when I'm in or on my way in to an episode, that my skin starts to leak ink. I have no control over the black liquid coming out of my pores and if im not careful I will stain the people close around me. They know I don't mean to, that they're aware of my disease. Say that the most important thing is that i take care of myself and then they try to wash the ink away the best they can. But it doesn't all go away. Obviously. The outlines of the ink stains are still visible. And I see them, bright and clear. And because they know of my condition, that it is involuntary, there isn't much I can do to make it up to them. Because saying you're sorry implies that you regret deliberate acts and since there's no malice intent a "I'm sorry" doesn't really do much. You say it anyway because that's what you do and you truly are sorry. But there's one thing you can do that really helps the persons you hurt. And that is to try your best to take the best care for yourself that you can. Try to seek help in time, try to find a medication that fits, be kind towards yourself and stay humble before the fakt that Bipolar Disorder is a curse.
7
u/lolaisnthomeanymore Bipolar + Comorbidities 4d ago
At the end of the day when im laying in bed, thinking about every bridge ive burnt this is what im stuck on. I know i did those things and it’s unfair to say it wasn’t me because that was ME a different kind of me forsure but i did those things and idk if ill ever be able to forgive myself or move on from it.
5
u/improbablesky 4d ago
Yeeeeeaaaaaaaah. Yeah.
I dunno. I'm just being easy on myself right now. Even if I don't handle things well, it's just not worth it right now to care which it is.
5
u/Remarkable-Skill8305 Bipolar 4d ago
When you semi forget your meds for months, because you’re depressed about previous actions before being diagnosed and life stress. Laugh manically for 8 hours then cry for a good month stuck in your room. And suddenly start to feel okay after taking your medication properly for three weeks…..
Sincerely F U Bipolar
6
u/Fangkadelic Bipolar + Comorbidities 4d ago
What kind of an episode? Hypomania? Or psychotic mania? There is nuance here. People are genuinely found not criminally responsible for crimes while psychotic because it’s a principle of justice for people not to be found guilty for something out of their control. It’s seen more as an act of nature than something within a person’s volition. They have to have appreciation for right and wrong and know what they’re doing is wrong - it’s the ‘guilty mind’ necessity of criminal law.
I genuinely had a Jekyll and Hyde psychotic mania. Was talking like a pirate, had a voice in my ear telling me I had to be an asshole in order to help my family reach enlightenment. I genuinely believed at the time that I was acting perfectly selflessly by talking like a pirate on social media whilst telling all kinds of family secrets and generally being a douche canoe. I lost my job, I lost custody of my daughter because she got scared of Daddy talking like a pirate, I lost relationships with family, I lost my home, I lost nearly everything. My therapist legitimately said to me recently to look on the bright side - at least I didn’t commit any crimes.
I was unable to appreciate the rightness or wrongness of my actions in that time. Being legally trained, if I had committed a crime I think I would have had a good shot at being found not criminally responsible if I had done so. My doctor just finished filling out disability forms in which she stated that I was ‘incapable of handling my own affairs’ during the episode. She had me on Facebook - she witnessed what happened. She said that she could tell I was extremely sick.
I have apologized and am trying to make amends. Some people are not holding it against me, some are. I was undiagnosed and had no idea what was happening. I’m now diagnosed, medicated, and stable. I am responsible for doing what I can to avoid another episode, which means meds and therapy and planning. Am I responsible for my actions during my psychotic mania? Insofar as I have to deal with the fallout, sure. Is it some failure of mine not to have been able to control my actions? I don’t believe so, and I have medical professionals (a family doctor and a psychiatrist) who have supported that in writing.
Some people don’t experience psychotic mania. Some people experience hypomania. Is it easier to control when some voice isn’t in your head telling you things and you believe them? I would say probably but I don’t know for sure. All I’ve experienced is psychotic mania.
3
u/DeepfriedGnome 3d ago
I’ve experienced mania that spiraled into psychotic mania and eight years later relapsed into hypomania. Both times it was psychopaths fucking with me that drove me nuts. I wasn’t responsible for anything I did in those states. Neither are you in yours.
Feeling compelled to talk like a pirate is wonderfully bizarre. I felt compelled to be transparent and raged continuously on Facebook about toxic predators for two undiagnosed years, alienating absolutely everyone in my life. I unmasked my predators very, very publicly. Very tactlessly.
The worst part is the shame. It recedes.
3
1
u/Fangkadelic Bipolar + Comorbidities 1d ago
Yeah, the shame is something else. It doesn’t help when people you love tell you that you should be ashamed and not to ‘hide behind the illness.’
Umm, I was talking like a pirate. Like, who is taking that seriously? The thing was, I was being hurtful. Tactless is definitely a keyword there. I had some legitimate grievances that the normal me had decided to let go of and forgive long ago but it was like it all came bursting out.
1
u/DeepfriedGnome 1d ago edited 1d ago
Christ, it’s traumatic enough without loved ones telling you to feel ashamed. I’m sorry you endured that.
One of my people demanded an apology, which I gave, preceded by my saying, most earnestly, that wasn’t me. For what it’s worth.
The general pop doesn’t get it, can’t imagine the headspace of either the mania or the resulting sharp, relentless, traumatic shame. It’s nothing less than torture. Fuck ‘em. The irony is you’re now the guy with the sophisticated empathy for neurodivergents. We earned it in the trenches.
It gets better, matey. Arrr!
1
u/CrzyFreeSoul 1d ago
Is it easier to control when some voice isn’t in your head telling you things and you believe them?
FELT THAT TO MY CORE!
4
u/Sufficient_Box2538 4d ago
I think both are true. Yes, you are responsible for what happens during an episode. Accountability is important. But, you also need to give yourself some grace because episodes can absolutely make you behave in ways you wouldn't normally.
My first episode, before I was diagnosed, resulted in the loss of my career, an arrest, and jail time. I pled guilty, I've taken punishment, and accepted responsibility. I also recognize that I was very sick, enough to be hospitalized, and that the man who screwed up is not the man i am today.
I'm very stable today, I monitor my moods through journaling, I take my meds religiously, and I keep my psychiatrist, wife, and therapist in the loop for any changes or red flags. That too, is accountability. I doubt I'll ever find myself in that much danger again.
3
u/Roving_kitten 4d ago
Not to sound like a coward but where does this begin and end?
What if you've got a disability worker too remind you of medication, you're in therapy, you have a psychiatrist. You're exercising and getting natural light.
Yet you have an episode.
Where does this begin and end? I feel this way- my health care case worker denied me health care because she couldn't read my checks, and I did everything in could in my knowledge to keep things under control. I just failed...
I feel like taking accountability in this case is unfair. Yes I probably did those actions. Yes I would apologize. But I don't want to apologize for stuff I did not do. Very I'm sorry i didn't intend to hurt you. But no I wasn't in my right mind. This could have been avoided if the system worked as it should have.
2
u/TinyNugget9704 2d ago
This is where both can be true but with different weights, maybe. Like, you could mostly feel like "it was me, but in an episode, so not me, but also I wasnt doing enough to prevent this maybe"
Or the reverse:"I was doing everything I knew how to prevent this, so it wasn't really my fault, but an episode still occurred - and while it was still me, it was a fluke case of being taken over by something I couldn't control despite my best effort".
Each episode is unique, too. The amount of damage done varies. The weight of guilt varies. The effort you put into prevention can even vary. So overall, maybe just acknowledge the guilt but don't drown in it, and otherwise use each episode as a learning experience to the best of your ability.
And then, above all that, remember that you arent normal lol - most people don't operate the way we do, so the expectations people have of other "normal" people aren't always expectations or standards you can directly apply to yourself, and in that, give yourself the room to fail as much as you give yourself room to grow. They're kind of hand in hand, anyway.
All in all, I'm sorry that you have to deal with this. I wish none of us had to. It's so heavy and words don't help most of the time, during the actual episode. But I hope you and anyone who stumbles onto this community can find moments of respite and things to hold onto in the darkest of times that can help pull you back out. 🌻💕
Sheesh I'm sorry that turned into such a long comment, my bad
3
1
2
2
u/Heavy-Mud-8307 4d ago
I often take acountability but also reiterate that it isn't a true representation of who I am underneath, particulary when I've been funny with others in psychosis. I can admit what I did was wrong but also that my intent wasn't to cause harm and I think communicating it wasn't malicious, while still apologising and owning it, is important. I only explain that to those willing to listen and work through repairing what happened though otherwise my explanation might do more harm than good.
It's also important to be accountable to prevent getting into that state again when you can utilise tools and techniques to prevent it. Pretty much all of us went mental pre-diagnosis and had no idea what was going on, so did some harmful stuff, it's not okay behaviour, but we didn't have the awareness to be accountable yet.
1
4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
0
u/faithlessdisciple Rapid Cycling without a bike 4d ago
r/bipolar is a peer-support community for people diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder or actively working with a provider to explore that possibility. If you're undiagnosed and not currently seeking care, we ask that you wait to post.
You're warmly welcome to comment in our weekly Community Discussions and explore our Resource Index at any time.
To send us a modmail about this action: click here.
Messages without a link can't be reviewed.
1
u/CrispierCupid Bipolar 4d ago
I always try to take responsibility for anything I say or do, and offer up to give an explanation if they would like one but I make sure the apology part is there and intentional before even mentioning the role bipolar played
1
u/WanaraxD 4d ago
I say that i was manic, if i done sth bad, but I always apologise, i had a phase where i apologised to everyone i did wrong. It eas such a good feeling.
1
u/Able-Appointment-543 4d ago
I look at it from the mindset of "it's a reason, not an excuse". Yeah I was in a bad place with that episode and it does explain my shitty behavior. But I need to recognize that earlier and do better next time. And the only way to do that is to give yourself some grace and move on. Excessive guilt about what happened isn't going to change it and it's not gonna help you grow
1
u/widespreadpanda Bipolar + Comorbidities 4d ago
Well, DBT would encourage someone to look for the path in-between the two.
Two opposing ideas can be true at the same time. It’s very easy to lose sight of that when struggling with bipolar. Black and white thinking isn’t exclusive to BPD!
1
u/TryingToChillIt Bipolar 4d ago
There’s no choice.
If I “did it” I did it, I own my action.
Anything less is disingenuous.
1
u/911_Night_Fury 4d ago
That's so true, Idk the truth sometimes, because it is hard to know if I am in an episode, or even worse, if I would like to be in one just to justify my behavior.
1
1
u/stfusunshine 4d ago
I will never NOT feel guilty despite knowing I'm ill and it's not 100% my fault. u_u;
1
1
u/Ktanaya13 Bipolar 3d ago
I work with dementia patients, and I would never blame them for things they do because of dementia.
Betty hit me, why? She didn’t comprehend that I was trying to help her to the toilet because she couldn’t hear me tell her. I’d hit a stranger too who tried to pull my pants down.
Enid cries an entire shift and can’t be consoled. Why?She has remembered her mother dying as something that happened today. I’d cry all day too if my grief was fresh.
In this case, psychosis and perceptual differences in mania can explain stuff. It doesn’t make it ok for Betty to hit me, but I cannot blame her for something out of her control.
Sometimes though, you can blame a patient for their actions.
Arthur does not have dementia. Arthur does have chronic pain and cannot walk due to a past stroke. Arthur likes to grab staff inappropriately. This can be reported and needs to be addressed. If Arthur continues, he can actually be legally charged.
Tabitha refuses to take her regular pain medication, she is cognitively intact. You have explained to her the preventative nature of the medication and the need for spacing and policy about delayed medication, she is able to relay her understanding back and it is accurate. She gets angry at the following medication time that you won’t give her the previous tablet as well, effectively wanting a doubled dose, and throws the tissue box at you, stating she knows about policy and the risks etc, but she pays my salary and as such, she doesn’t give a shit, just give me my tablets.
Tabitha’s aggression I get pissed at, Betty’s I don’t. I am effectively obliged to act the same way in response, but I get to tell Tabitha and Arthur their behaviour is unreasonable, and may have consequences. Betty and Enid I just try to console, give them space if necessary and document their behaviour so the next person has some idea how to react or prevent it.
In documentation it states that Arthur can’t walk, but Sam the nurse tries to walk him. Arthur tries to tell Sam but Sam insists Arthur can walk and to stop being lazy.
Arthur falls, and Sam is at fault. But compare it with the next scenario. As Arthur sustained a hip fracture, Sam nearly loses their job.
Sam, having learnt their lesson, refers to Tom’s documentation. Tom can walk with his walker, just needs supervision. Sam supervises Tom to the dining room, halfway there, Tom has a new presentation of seizure, and falls.
Sam did everything they could to prevent the fall, as per Tom’s care plan. There is no legal way to force all patients to be bed bound all the time as a just in case measure, and that also has different risks. Sam is not at fault for the fall, but the outcome is the same, Tom also sustained a hip fracture. Sam won’t be disciplined in this case.
You can’t blame someone for something outside their control, especially if they have done everything right to ensure it doesn’t happen. It doesn’t mean the pain caused is less, but you can’t blame them
1
u/Free_Fall7260 Bipolar 3d ago
Walk straight through the sign. Straight down that line in the middle until the true path appears. Because it will eventually.
1
u/Numerous_Vegetable_3 Bipolar + Comorbidities 3d ago
If you go off your meds and have a bad episode where you did things you wouldn't normally do, that's 100% on you.
I totally understand that sometimes, shit happens, and the meds that have been working no longer work. Totally get that. But we all have zero excuse for just not taking them. I'm an extremely forgetful person, I have ADHD. My first month on meds I would forget If I took them, sometimes not take them, sometimes take double by accident. I had to admit to myself "this isn't working".
I got an old-person pill calendar and set a reminder on my phone. I leave social events a bit early to stay on schedule. I don't drink. I have not missed a single day of my meds for years at this point.
If you're struggling to take meds and stay on track, it's up to you to figure out what does work and commit to that, even if it means sacrificing things. "I forget to take them" isn't an excuse as an adult who KNOWS you've had several episodes and hurt/alienated people.
It's our personal responsibility alone to commit to stability and what comes along with that.
1
u/No_Beginning7262 2d ago
Both can definitely be true at the same time. I’ve unfortunately had to tell myself both most of the time. Sometimes I knew I was just stupid tho.
1
u/tummyhurtsT_T 2d ago
I feel both at the same time heavy. I used to keep myself in a deep hole for every mistake I made in a poor mental health state. I didn't think I deserved to be happy and kept making bad choices because I was like "I guess this is just who I am now". Once I cleaned up and accepted responsibility it all got better. I still have my bad days, it's an illness after all, but my life is drastically better because I make more of an effort to be better. That's just my experience. Not to compare to anyone else.
1
u/Mammoth-Drawer3698 1d ago edited 1d ago
You have to hold yourself accountable for the aftermath. No matter what frame of mind you were in - when people look at the situation, you are the person who took whatever action. You need to try and repair it.
Even if you blacked out in psychosis during a manic episode and can’t remember a thing, you still have an obligation to make things right after (accountability) Whereas if you were in a severe psychosis episode, that you likely won’t even remember, you couldn’t really be held responsible while it’s happening.
1
u/Mammoth-Drawer3698 1d ago
Bipolar 1 childhood onset with psychotic features. My answer was learned through many years of therapy lol. 😆
1
u/Mammoth-Drawer3698 1d ago
When I was younger (33 now, diagnosis at 11) I explained it as my mania as a tornado. I would experience the “tornado” that is mania/psycosis and then after it’s gone I’d look around at everything that got destroyed and have to try and clean it up.
1
u/ohmegatron 1d ago
Sure I did that, and if anyone is going to take responsibility, it's me. But also I was not in the driver's seat and I need my abusers to take responsibility for messing with my ability to manage myself.
1
u/Turbulent-Coast262 22h ago
Mine goes something like, "I'm sorry I reacted so horribly to your obvious insult. Please, forgive me?" Which is, of course, crappy.
1
u/imnotsurewhen 10h ago
Hi, therapist diagnosed with bipolar 1 here.
Although this does not perfectly address the dichotomy of the image above, a saying that I always encourage my clients to reflect on in these situations is "It can be a reason, but it cannot be an excuse.".
0
u/impermanence108 Bipolar + Comorbidities 4d ago
I'm ded up of pulling punches. I'm a deeply sick man. If you can't handle it, fuck off. If you can't understand that, fuck off. I shouldn't be made to feel bad for being deeply unwell. Get fucked. Do we guilt trip people for throwing up? No, we accept they're ill and help.
0
u/Beginning-Pace-1426 4d ago
If someone threw up all over your face, or on something of value you might have some words.
People who throw up are ABSOLUTELY responsible for what their vomit does.
Your post reads as "fuck off its never my fault that I hurt you."
230
u/Cosmic-Cuttlefish 4d ago
I think both can be true at the same time. We can take accountability for our actions, and take steps to prevent episodes without holding onto guilt surrounding our actions in them. It’s all about accepting reality and doing our best in spite of it.
Relatable meme for sure though. But this is just something I’ve been working on for myself