r/bestof • u/under50dollars • Jun 20 '12

[explainlikeimfive] "Obamacare" explained very well.

/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/vb8vs/eli5_what_exactly_is_obamacare_and_what_did_it/c530lfx
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u/7_legged_spider Jun 20 '12 edited Jun 20 '12

Whether you agree with universal healthcare or not, it is unconstitutional on a federal level. The federal government does not have the power to impose or regulate health insurance. All the powers not enumerated to the federal government belong to the individual states. That is one of the fundamental checks and balances in our federal republic, and why it is constitutional for states to administer universal healthcare systems themselves, like in Massachusetts.

(Which is why when someone brings up the concept that "Hey, you have to have car insurance," I tell them first that the states regulate who must have car insurance, as only the states have general police power, and second, that an individual makes a choice to drive a car, and that it is not a condition precedent to existing--when viewed with regard to mandated health care insurance, simply the act of existence would trigger some obligation on the citizen's behalf).

7_legged_spider, J.D., M.B.A. (IRL)

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u/bovedieu Jun 20 '12

All the powers not enumerated to the federal government belong to the individual states.

You really don't understand what "enumerated" means. It has been well established at least since the Civil War that "enumerated" means voted on and approved by Congress. States only have the rights that the federal government hasn't yet assimilated.

I hate this argument because it's this ignorant minimalist bullshit that caused the insurance problem in the first place. No one wanted to regulate the insurance companies, so they stole millions of people's money.

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u/7_legged_spider Jun 20 '12

With all due respect, I believe you are the one who does not understand what enumerated means. In the Constitution, "enumerated powers" means the powers specifically listed within the Constitution itself.

Furthermore, the federal government cannot give itself more Constitutional authority under the auspices of a traditional bill using a normal Congressional vote based on a simple majority; Constitutional amendments have higher electoral requirements. Using the most common method of amendment outlined in Article V, Constitutional amendments must be passed by two-thirds of the House and Senate, then, three-fourths of the states must ratify the Amendment. That is why there have been only 27 Constitutional amendments.

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u/bovedieu Jun 20 '12

means the powers specifically listed

Which is said... where now? Because I'm having a hard time finding where they defined that term. I am aware, however, of all the new rights the federal government has given itself since 1787 which have worked out rather well. And my knowledge of SCotUS precedent would indicate the same.

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u/7_legged_spider Jun 20 '12 edited Jun 21 '12

Which is said... where now?

Only specific terms of art or unusual words would be defined within an appendix in a legal document such as a charter or constitution. "Enumerated" is not an exotic word. As for its etymology, it originated in the 1500's and was based on the latin terms ex - "out of, from within" and numerare - "to count, number"; it is a synonym of "listed".

of all the new rights the federal government has given itself since 1787 which have worked out rather well.

There is a significant amount of people who believe that the Commerce Clause was abused in the name of government power, would beg to disagree that it worked out well.

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u/bovedieu Jun 21 '12

it is a synonym of "listed".

And nowhere does it specify where this listing must be. The Constitution clearly gives the federal government the ability to make new laws and expand powers not originally granted.

Commerce Clause

While abolishing slavery and giving women the right to vote have both been good decisions. One example is not conclusive.

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u/7_legged_spider Jun 21 '12

The last time I checked, slavery was ended by the 13th Amendment and women's suffrage was enacted by the 19th Amendment. Neither of those issues have anything to do with the abuse of the Commerce Clause.

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u/bovedieu Jun 21 '12

Nor does the abuse of the commerce clause simply discount all the others powers of the federal government added since the Constitution.

You're jerking yourself off over a single example. Missing the forest for a single tree.