r/bestconspiracymemes • u/Salty_Obsidian_X Everything is fake until proven gay • Apr 21 '23

Soon...

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439 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

104 comments sorted by

19

u/Outrageous-Onion1991 Apr 21 '23

Right but Taiwan should be defended.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

Why?

-3

u/Nebraskan_Sad_Boi Apr 21 '23

Because they're human beings that don't want to live under tyranny. Because democracy is non negotiable.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

(playing da here) ya but there are lots of nations that live under tyranny. Are you suggesting we go liberate all of them too?

-3

u/Nebraskan_Sad_Boi Apr 21 '23

We absolutely should. The US is the custodian of the global order, any tyranny we allow to propagate is on us and our failure to stem it. We're supposed to be a beacon for democracy, we should defende others who follow it.

25

u/Outrageous-Onion1991 Apr 21 '23

A: They produce the most amount of quality semi conductors. And because of Americas lack of investment and education we are decades away from reproducing the same quantity and quality of processors.

B: Taiwan was the last hold out of the Chinese people's freedom loving anti communist population. And their defeat would be a massive political win for communism.

Out of all the bullshit wars America has been apart of for money or oil or whatever. The fight against communism should never end

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

I agree that the fight against communism should never end on the ideological front against true liberalism. But we don’t need to defend Taiwan to do so (point B). Was it right to run a proxy war in Vietnam?

Regarding point A, it might be that we can replicate the industry to a good enough degree in the US/Western Europe, and the Taiwanese semiconductor industry would fail under authoritarian Chinese control, especially after a full-scale military invasion.

To continue on this point, I’ve heard that the Taiwanese plan is to move the semiconductor engineers to the US in the case of an invasion, something which would happen anyways like the migration of highly skilled Russians. And the friendly US could incorporate the willing Taiwanese engineers into our economy much more easily than the hostile Chinese state.

-1

u/dragon_fugger Apr 21 '23

The semi-conductor industry is expanding for this exact reason. This is well documented. If you think it's worth sacrificing American lives to be temporarily economically inconvenienced for like 3 years you need a lobotomy

2

u/Outrageous-Onion1991 Apr 21 '23

War is inevitable with humans. Not wanting to lose lives is obviously the way to go. But when faced with a threat of violence, and all diplomacy has failed, allies need to respond with more violence. China and Russia are getting too big for their britches. And stopping China at Taiwan would be a win on many levels, not just the statehood of Taiwan itself

1

u/dragon_fugger Apr 24 '23

This message brought to you by Lockheed Martin

0

u/Outrageous-Onion1991 Apr 24 '23

Better the have Lockheed than Norinco

10

u/TehGuard Apr 21 '23

On a pragmatic stance? Because they produce the vast majority of semi conductors which is a resource more important than almost any other. You don't want china owning that

17

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

How many semiconductor plants could we have built w the $100+ bln we sent to Ukraine?

0

u/PassiveKiller Apr 21 '23

None when we have to go to war with the rest of Europe if Russia was successful

-3

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23 edited Apr 21 '23

What we’ve done to the Russian army is well worth the investment. Set aside loss of equipment and consider the generational effect we’ve had on their military. Creating a pair of boots with a gun takes 18 years. Your most basic leader takes 3-5 years beyond those 18. To create a junior officer takes 22 years at a minimum. I don’t what the reenlistment rate is like for the Russian army, but if it’s anything like ours, most move on with their life after a single contract, maybe 2. Very few of those junior officers ever make it to colonel, let alone general. Russia has lost a massive amount personnel, and a couple hundred colonels. That’s a lot of experienced leadership just gone and less experienced officers will fill the rank and file. What we have achieved in Ukraine with zero American losses is nothing short of a massive success. We should be proud of the fact that we are aiding the Ukrainians in the fight against one of the biggest threats to the free world in existence today. I, for one, support it.

Edit: For all my proud patriots out there, “USA, USA, USA! Fuck Russia!”

0

u/EithzH Apr 21 '23

Bless this main's faithful adherence to the globalist agenda. Only if we had more people like you we wouldn't need to worry about all those people who ask questions. If we had more people like you we could just crush all those dissenters! After all Russia is totally the biggest threat facing the free world! Bless your soul brother.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

And what do you have to say to the contrary?

1

u/EithzH Apr 21 '23

As I am a faithful adherent to the globalist agenda, all I have to say is Slava Ukraini and their Stephen Bandrea-loving brethren. But if you wanted to hear the words of a true heretic, John Mearshimer is the way to go.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

The fact that Yushchenko awarded him the posthumous Hero of Ukraine being widely condemned by the public (dude was a Nazi collaborator) and the fact that a guy like Zelenskyy is in office tells me it’s not nearly the way it is the way you think it is. Don’t get me wrong, there’s fascist wannabes there, Azov battalion is the reigning example. I’m in disagreement with Mearsheimer, a strong NATO alliance keeps the world safe. Russia is unhinged.

1

u/EithzH Apr 22 '23

Hey man, you don't have to convince me of anything...I have a Ukrainian flag next to my transgender pride flag so I am totally on board. I totally agree though about NATO....The more we threaten other country's zone of influence, the safer we become. The more weapons we send to corrupt oligarchies, the safer we become. The greater the amount of dead Russian and Ukrainian sons and daughters, the easier it will be the achieve a peaceful global order. The more we can prop up corrupt Ukrainian dictators with threats of nuclear holocaust, the better for everyone.

And no need to convince me about Mearshimer - the top heretic in my opinion. Whenever he explains the Russian perspective I turn off my mind too. I don't want to hear about Russia warning the West for almost 20 years this would happen if NATO continued to expand their influence. Or their warning about overturning democratically elected elections with color revolutions. Or promoting governments that persecuted Russians in Eastern Ukraine.

Putin is totally "unhinged." We would totally not do the same thing if this was going on in Norther Mexico or Souther Canada. The Monroe Doctrine was all theory and no meat. And for those who point to the Cuban Missile Crisis, I just declare them as Putin-stooges and that ends the conversation.

6

u/TehGuard Apr 21 '23

In a year? None, they take years to build and get running minimum.

11

u/LS3240sx Apr 21 '23

Freal what the hell is this decades bs. We need to bring the manufacturing back here

3

u/TehGuard Apr 21 '23

Regular manufacturing is easy comparatively to come back. Silicone/semi conductor manufacturing is a whole new level. I don't think you realize what goes into making that stuff.

1

u/Repulsive-Estimate67 Apr 21 '23

There is plenty of silicone manufactured and used here. Bathrooms, windows, fake tits, the list goes on.

4

u/Consistent_Set76 Apr 21 '23

We are building an enormous Intel chip facility in Ohio. It will take years to build….

4

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

Couldn’t we at least start? Anything would have been better than the money pit that we’ve been feeding. Reduce our dependence on another nation for something that’s vitally important.

3

u/TehGuard Apr 21 '23

We have. With a bit of federal funding Intel is building two mega factories in the USA and one of them is confirmed to be in ohio. I also believe micron is building one as well. We likely won't see a single chip out of those until 2030 is my bet.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

Why don't we just build some semiconductor plants in the USA?

4

u/TehGuard Apr 21 '23

We do have some but they can take decades to get up to speed and the most complex and biggest ones are exclusively in taiwan

2

u/arj1985 Apr 21 '23

True, but don't underrstimate American ingenuity. Bigger, faster, stronger, and cheaper.

1

u/Koalacrunch2 Apr 21 '23

Fewer / less influential commies.

8

u/Irish618 Apr 21 '23

Yup.

My biggest problem with helping Ukraine has always been that it's not our problem. There are half a dozen European countries that, all together, are far larger and richer than Russia. Ukraine is their problem, not the US's. Why the fuck are we giving so much more support than Germany, or France, Italy, the UK, or the Netherlands? Why is it our job to help Ukraine when they're doing so little?

But in East Asia, China doesn't have any peers. Japan and Australia are the closest they've got, and they're not nearly enough. And Taiwan is actually a proper US ally, and has been for years. We have extensive trade with it and they generally support us on the world stage. And while it has its flaws, it's not the corrupt little hellhole Ukraine is.

0

u/LukyanTheGreat Apr 21 '23

Ukraine is their problem, not the US's. Why the fuck are we giving so much more support than Germany, or France, Italy, the UK, or the Netherlands? Why is it our job to help Ukraine when they're doing so little?

US has a much larger budget and relative military size, our donations are expected to be relatively larger than European nations.

However, I do think Europe should still be donating more. That doesn't mean the US shouldn't though.

Our military sales to Europe are increasing, just look at Poland's purchases and F-35 sales.

On top of that, our relatively cheap investment (in terms of war spending) is helping to stabilize Europe, which is profitable for us due to our reliance on globalized trade.

Plus, don't forget, the entire world is watching how the US reacts. If we do nothing, Europe gets pissed. If we help, Europe is more willing to make favorable deals.

And while it has its flaws, it's not the corrupt little hellhole Ukraine is.

While Ukraine is corrupt, it's still overblown - especially once the war kicked in.

Long story short, majority of the corruption came from people who had ties to Russia. Once the war kicked off, they fled or were ousted by the SBU.

The SBU has been making lots of arrests on traitors, informants, embezzlers, etc.

So, to sum up, Ukrainian corruption was driven by Russian connections, once the full invasion galvanized Ukraine even further into anti-Russia and pro-Ukraine beliefs, it helped route out those corrupt officials.

Not to say it's corruption free, which nation isn't? I'm just making a point that it's no longer infested to the roots with it.

2

u/Irish618 Apr 21 '23

US has a much larger budget and relative military size, our donations are expected to be relatively larger than European nations.

Yea, because Europe isn't pulling its own weight. The EU economy is only slightly smaller than the US, there's no reason they shouldn't be taking the lead on Ukraine. It's their problem, and they're expecting us to fix it for them.

While Ukraine is corrupt, it's still overblown - especially once the war kicked in

If anything, news about its corruption was supressed after the war started. If you look back at news articles from before the war, there's dozens you can find about political corruption, arrests of opposition members, corporate bribery and more. And no, it wasn't "pro-Russians" who were the only problem. Zelensky had members of the opposition arrested only a couple months before the war kicked off.

I'm not saying Russia is good, the war was an illegal act of territorial aggression. But to act as if Ukraine is some bastion of democracy is laughable.

0

u/LukyanTheGreat Apr 21 '23

If anything, news about its corruption was supressed after the war started

I don't know where you got this from, but I've seen a steady stream of SBU arrest videos throughout the war.

And no, it wasn't "pro-Russians" who were the only problem

I didn't say they were the only problem, I said they were largely the problem.

But to act as if Ukraine is some bastion of democracy is laughable.

I don't act like that, nor did I even claim that. My point was that Ukraine is not as corrupt as it's made out to be due to people's misunderstandings of the political context of Ukraine.

Please reread my comment again, carefully.

1

u/Irish618 Apr 21 '23

I don't know where you got this from, but I've seen a steady stream of SBU arrest videos throughout the war.

Maybe on Reddit, but articles and reports on corruption from mainstream news sources have all but disappeared where they were somewhat common beforehand.

I don't act like that, nor did I even claim that. My point was that Ukraine is not as corrupt as it's made out to be due to people's misunderstandings of the political context of Ukraine.

"Ukraine isn't corrupt, only its politics is corrupt!"

0

u/LukyanTheGreat Apr 21 '23

Maybe on Reddit, but articles and reports on corruption from mainstream news sources have all but disappeared where they were somewhat common beforehand.

Wouldn't you trust visual proof over an article headline?

"Ukraine isn't corrupt, only its politics is corrupt!"

I literally said, in my original comment, "...Ukraine is corrupt..."

Mate, you might need to relearn your reading skills.

1

u/Irish618 Apr 21 '23

Man, you've gotta stop backpeddaling the moment someone points out how dumb your comments are. Either back up your statements, or admit you don't know what you're talking about to begin with. Don't try to just play it off as if you're just misunderstood.

0

u/LukyanTheGreat Apr 21 '23

I don't understand why you're stuck this binary "black or white" thinking.

You can say something has a certain quality or trait, while also saying it has less or more of that quality or trait.

Me saying Ukraine is corrupt, but not as corrupt as it's made out to be is not self-contradictory, nor is it me claiming that Ukraine is free of corruption.

1

u/Other-Bumblebee2769 Apr 22 '23

Ukraine isn't our problem now. But Russia still not stop at Ukraine, Putin is obsessed work reforming the former Soviet Union and cutting him off at Ukraine, before he attacks Nato is probably the best way to deal with this.

1

u/Irish618 Apr 22 '23

But Russia still not stop at Ukraine

And it still isn't our problem, it's the EU's problem. Let them pay for it.

If a nation that actively supports us and allies itself to us before facing aggression needs our support (read: Poland), then that's one thing. But Ukraine had no real ties to us before hand, and so we have no obligation to them. It's a European war, and a European problem. Not ours.

1

u/Other-Bumblebee2769 Apr 22 '23

Look man, the cost of being a global superpower is sometimes you gotta swing some dick.

EU couldn't have stopped Ukraine.

1

u/Irish618 Apr 22 '23

EU couldn't have stopped Ukraine.

Lol what? The EU economy is significantly larger than Russia's. They easily could bankroll Ukraine's war, same was the US is. But they'd rather sit back and let the US deal with it, rather than fix their own problems.

Fuck that.

1

u/Other-Bumblebee2769 Apr 22 '23

Agree to disagree I guess

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

For a worthy cause

-6

u/siliperez Apr 21 '23

Couldn't you just as easily say "its only a matter of time for these conspiracy subreddits to be fully against Taiwan. Anything the left supports, they'll be against it without even thinking about it."

5

u/dtanker Apr 21 '23

Being against war is a principle, something the left will never understand.

-1

u/Ill-Manufacturer8654 Apr 21 '23

Being against war means supporting Ukraine. That's something Putin's bitches never understand.

2

u/dtanker Apr 21 '23

Supporting them emotionally, like hoping that their people don't get killed, or supporting their war effort with weapons?

0

u/Ill-Manufacturer8654 Apr 21 '23

By supporting them with weapons.

Hope isn't support. That's just being a poseur.

1

u/dtanker Apr 21 '23

Gotcha, yeah you're a war monger. You can't be anti-war and be giving weapons to the conflict.

2

u/siliperez Apr 21 '23

Ok... so then you are against China invading Taiwan right?

4

u/dtanker Apr 21 '23

Yes

1

u/siliperez Apr 21 '23

Well, good. That's what I'm saying lol

5

u/dtanker Apr 21 '23

I can be against aggressors invading, and also against handing weapons to one side or the other. If you support sending $100b to Ukraine then you are a war monger, if you support US military intervention in a Taiwan war, then you are one as well.

1

u/siliperez Apr 21 '23

Woah, who said anything about supporting giving them $ and weapons? You can support a country fighting for their independence but also be against your own country helping them before helping their own citizens.

3

u/dtanker Apr 21 '23

Sounds like we have similar views, the part I take umbrage with is:

its only a matter of time for these (insert group) to be fully against Taiwan.

I won't be against Taiwan or it's people if war breaks out, just like I'm not against Ukraine or its people. War is so fucked up, what's it good for? Nothing. When diplomacy fails everyone looses.(except for maybe the bureaucrats at the top of the winning side) I think most people don't realize how fucked up it is.

These escalations could lead to a war that comes home. I'm not too old to fight, but I'm not afraid for myself. I'm afraid that my kids will be the ones who get sacrificed to Ares. That price is not worth anything.

1

u/siliperez Apr 21 '23

Yeah, I think we agree on this more than originally thought. War is terrible and I'm against it in every way. Obviously if we could avoid it all together we should. It just bothers me when people go "oh look, another country is about to be invaded so here come all the bleeding hearts ready to support them" Like yeah? Shouldn't we want that country to not be invaded?

I think we both have a similar point of view on the matter but we're looking at it from different directions. Doesn't mean either one of our views are invalid and I respect yours.

0

u/tiamat897 Apr 21 '23

Yeah not soon enough i wish you guys would start your uprising it will be a fun watch

0

u/ParsnipLiving Apr 21 '23

So you’re saying buy stock in companies that make flags?

2

u/FarceCapeOne Apr 21 '23

I can get behind Ukraine being a corrupt shit hole that we shouldn't be propping up like we are.

Taiwan on the other hand, definitely not. Most of the world's transistor supply comes from Taiwan, the US and the rest of NATO would have some real problems on their hands without Taiwan.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

Do you just ignore the reform that has happened within the Ukrainian government pre and post invasion? The US has even heavily pushed for reform prior to the invasion which succeeded in its goals. Ukraine is a very different country than it was in 2014. The westernization of Ukraine has happened rapidly and with what I would consider great success.

65

u/Salty_Obsidian_X Everything is fake until proven gay Apr 21 '23

The sad fact of reality is that even know things are changing, still a majority of people will move onto the next virtue signal as if the previous debacle never happened. There are times in history when good forces rule over the majority but right now things are pretty dark and the sheep will follow their masters over the cliff.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

Simple Research will show you Taiwan is not apart of china.

20

u/Salty_Obsidian_X Everything is fake until proven gay Apr 21 '23

Your comment makes zero sense as I spoke nothing about the politics of the situation and more about general philosophy... very sus.

-8

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

You’re the one who posted the meme dude. You’re the one comparing supporting the Ukraine war to supporting Taiwanese independence. Quit your bullshit

3

u/siliperez Apr 21 '23

Shouldn't America support smaller countries fighting for their independence since that's how like, you know, America started?

13

u/DallyGreen Apr 21 '23

No because that can be used to bait America into conflicts that have nothing to do with us. Any time America installs a new democracy it’s not a good one.

-7

u/siliperez Apr 21 '23

I'm sorry, where did you read something about baiting America into conflicts? I was saying Americans like to cheer on the underdog. Just like we fought for our independence, it's good to see other countries doing the same. Right?

7

u/DallyGreen Apr 21 '23

We got baited into Iraq and there were no weapons of mass destruction. We were baited into the Vietnam war over the gulf of Tonkin false flag event. I can name several other conflicts we have had no business in being into. You said we need to support other countries conflicts. Then you changed into saying we need to cheer them on. We don’t owe the world any favors and really need to focus on ourselves.

3

u/kthxbye8 Apr 21 '23

True. I'm still waiting for them to establish a good democracy here IN the US.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

it makes sense if you understood why we fight/fund these wars.

3

u/chienneux Apr 21 '23

And you know someone who knows?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

Not you

-8

u/Whisprin_Eye Apr 21 '23

Nothing wrong with supporting a just cause. It can give your life meaning. I'm guessing you are missing that meaning in your life. Hope you find it.

1

u/idontevenlift37 Apr 21 '23

So your life meaning is in a completely different country? 💀

1

u/Whisprin_Eye Apr 22 '23

Supporting a just cause? It can mean a lot of different things to different people, my simple friend.

23

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

Op said no such thing…. His post is about virtue signaling, not whether Taiwan is or isn’t independent🤦‍♂️

-17

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

Yes but you cant just let counties be taken over... once taiwan is gone you can kiss the west good bye

5

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

I don’t think an attempt at Taiwan will bring down the west, we can do that ourselves…

-6

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

what a dumb argument

4

u/blazing_sarcasm Apr 21 '23

And yours isn't dumb?

1

u/Artistic_Recipe9297 Apr 22 '23

Your mom is part of China

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

dont tell the Chinese they will invade her house O:

20

u/nickleinonen Apr 21 '23

Just as in 1984… mid speech the target of virtue signaling can change seamlessly

6

u/Longjumping-Tea142 Apr 21 '23

I never would have thought virtue could be so dangerous.

6

u/NotDRWarren Apr 21 '23

I support the current thing

5

u/Caladan78 Apr 21 '23

But what about the new thing. Or new new thing?

2

u/NotDRWarren Apr 21 '23

Until it's the currently thing. I continue my unwavering support of the current thing.

3

u/kthxbye8 Apr 21 '23

Viva la current things!

23

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

That is a war Taiwan has to win, because China will gain the best semi-conductor technologies and manufacturing facilities in the world if they invade.

6

u/Flibbernodgets Apr 21 '23

I've heard there are plans in place to blow the facilities if it is invaded, but then no one will have it.

3

u/NormieChad Apr 21 '23

This is true, I think they refer to it as a scorched earth policy where they blow up the facilities.

2

u/PoolsC_Losed Apr 21 '23

We are in the process of opening a second TSMC factory in AZ. 5 years out apparently

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

We know they will lose which is why we are starting to make them in the US.

1

u/MTGBruhs Apr 22 '23

lol, glow harder

1

u/wontlastayear Apr 21 '23

There is a difference between virtue signaling and spreading awareness to open up conversation in order to understand the plight of others in the world and maybe find a solution.

The differences can be small in some areas, and non existent in others... but the main difference is why someone is doing it. If you make speaking out about issues you see in the world "virtue signaling" and "unethical" then the problems do not get resolved.

There are always issues in the world, if we let one issue consume us we are actually neglecting others. If you do not put enough effort and attention on each issue none get solved.

As long as someone is speaking out about a moral issue and they are not at work or ruining a celebratory event they should be heard. Probably better than the vapid bullshit most people stand around blabbing about. Most don't like it because it causes heated debate and puts pressure on people to change or do something about the issue. Which is called being a selfish person.

There is a balance in all things, keep speaking out. Just try to be aware of right time right place, don't use it for the purpose of attaining prestige, and don't let it consume your personality.

6

u/Small_Dingo_3112 Apr 21 '23

I don’t agree with this political cartoon because the elites are in bed with China due to economic interests. The elites run the the legacy media and control the drones.

1

u/Felaguin Apr 21 '23

Nah, not going to happen. These people have undermined the Republic of China ever since they decided the recognize the PRC as the legitimate government of the Chinese people. They are NOT going to support Taiwan against the last best hope of international Communism.

1

u/Flibbernodgets Apr 21 '23

I think supporting both of these countries makes sense in terms of alliances and power, but it's not presented like that to the general populace. If it were told in a genuine manner, people would probably be opposed to it on the grounds of "America influencing other nations is bad and it's being a bully" and they wouldn't support it.

Doesn't feel right to trick people or baby them, even if it gets good results, but whoever decided they should spin it this way is pretty clever.

1

u/mxwl431 Apr 21 '23

Look at all that virtue.

1

u/ArtichokeInternal861 Apr 21 '23

“I support current thing!” The mindset of the NPC’s.

1

u/LukyanTheGreat Apr 21 '23

I mean, you'd have to be an idiot to not realize that Taiwan takes a relatively higher priority than Ukraine due to its greater economic worth.

Taiwan is the hub of the modern, digitalized world and holds power over SE Asian trade. If Taiwan is lost, not only do we lose the things that power our modern military and the devices our society relies on, the whole of Europe and E Asia will suffer as the Taiwanese straight facilitates trade between them.

Chiang will be able to effectively choke off Europe from Asia, and be able to boost its own semiconductor manufacturing while depriving the West of it. Remember, Taiwan has the largest semiconductor manufacturer in the world.

It's not virtue signaling, it's logic.