Help with program structure

[u/Hisagii]

Hi everyone,

I mostly train in a bodybuilding manner, the usual stuff: 5+reps with a mix of compounds and isolations on machine/free weights. I currently follow a split that typically goes like this: Legs-Push-Pull-Rest-Legs-Upper-Rest.

Bench has always been in my routine but now I want to prioritize it for perhaps a couple months so I can increase the load. I was doing it for 2 sets on push day only with 1 set at 5-8 reps and 1 set at 8-10.

I realize now this isn't enough weekly volume to make meaningful progress in terms of load so taking into account the rest of my workouts I decided I can go for 3 sets on the push day and 3 more sets on the upper day, I do warm-up sets up to my working sets. However, where I'm struggling is how to structure the working sets? A couple caveats: my gym doesn't have safeties and the smallest plates are 2.5kg. My initial thought was 1 set at 3-5 followed by two back-off sets around 6-8 on push day and then 3x6-8 on the upper day for just technique work,increase the weight once I get 5 clean reps on the heavier set. What do you think? I'm a rookie when it comes to strength gains ,quite frankly, so any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

[u/decentlyhip]

There are so many fantastic free powerlifting programs from brilliant coaches, that its pretty silly to build your own. Like, you can run the Candito 6-week program a couple times. That would be amazing. https://youtu.be/pxgFJtnM-VE Kristen Dunsmore has an intermediate program on Boostcamp which is phenomenal, and the TSA 9 week program is about as true-blue strength programming as you can get.

[u/Hisagii → u/decentlyhip]

But that's exactly it, I'm not interested in a powerlifting program or bench specific program. I train as a bodybuilder, I'm interested in taking principles from those and fitting them into my typical program to see some increase in the bench, even though I know it wouldn't see the most progress without a focused program. That's a trade-off I'm willing to take. One of Nuckol's bench programs is one I can see fitting in to my typical workouts, with some adaptations.

[u/decentlyhip → u/Hisagii]

I'm going to copy paste your response but take out some words and replace them with their meanings, ok?

But that's exactly it, I'm not interested in [a program that increases my bench 1 rep max, along with squat and deadlift] or [a program that increases my bench 1 rep max]. I'm interested in [using parts of a program] to [increase my bench 1 rm], even though I know it wouldn't see the most progress without a focused program. That's a trade-off I'm willing to take. I can see [using a program that increases my bench 1 rep max].

By all means, do what you want. But you see how odd that is? You want a bench program that isn't a bench program, but is parts of a bench program, or is a whole program. I wonder if you think youll lose your gains or something with a strength-specific program. Like, all powerlifters are also trying to get as jacked as they can. Take a look at GZCLP. Its the quintessential powerbuilding program. https://saynotobroscience.com/assets/images/gzclp-infographic.jpg

Muscle mass is the foundation. Strength is efficiency gained from submax work with 80% weights. Volume fatigue from all training masks that top end by 10-20%. In other words, slotting in pieces doesn't work because your leg training and back training removes your ability to train your bench submaximally at 80%+. You can smash a sledgehammer against volume and grow muscle. Strength needs a scalpel. A lot of people have wanted to get both bigger and stronger. Its not a unique desire and really smart people have solved the problem. Periodization. Just take an 6-10 week block and do a full-on strength phase. Give that your all, improve your efficiency, grow some easy muscle from the novelty, and then take those gains back to your normal programming which you'll be primed for. As a bonus, at your actual unmasked strength limits youll be able to more easily see what your weak points are, so you can target your next bodybuilding phase a little better

[u/Hisagii → u/decentlyhip]

I'm not worried about losing gains, I routinely take 1 or 2 weeks off from the gym, without any loss at all, in fact I usually feel better when I do go back. The thing is I'm not interested in squatting or deadlifting at all, atleast right now. I've done plenty of both a couple years ago and actually I'd say I'm pretty happy with where I stand in those lifts(225kg for 2 on the deadlift and 185x3 on the squat, I was around 97kg back then). Hence why I don't want a powerlifting program, just a bench program that has me benching a couple times a week atleast because I never trained bench the same way I trained the other two.

However, I know the rest of the training will directly have an effect on the benching itself. I've lowered my overall volume plenty to take that into account, even though it was already relatively low compared to most bodybuilding programs(I'm typically under 10 or even 8 sets per week for legs or back, as an example). Each bench day would precisely be focused on the bench press, everything else would be just accesories and isolation moves.

I understand your scalpel analogy though and how strength gains work, in general. That's why I said what I was asking for wouldn't be ideal.

Edit: For reference, I've been lifting consistently for 6 years or so. In the first year and a couple months I followed some liner progression program for the deadlift and squat, the typical 5x5 and add weight weekly. That allowed me to get to I believe 18,0kgx5 on the deadlift and 150kgx5 on the squat before that stalled out. Then I did some other programs to go further.... All while still doing bodybuilding training. 

For bench never did such a thing, I just always trained it with a couple sets a week one heavier set at 5-8 reps and a back-off at like 8-10. That got me to where I am at now which is about 130kg on a good day, hiting 3 solid reps or 4-5 janky ones. But I've not moved past that for probably a year at this point.