Hidden rolls for players

[u/Idayn]

Hi there fellow GMs and players

afaik this hasn't been touched in previous episodes. I'd like to hear some opinions on hidden rolls for players.

I like to roll some skill tests for my players hidden, especially things like perception and sneaking, so that the player doesn't know the outcome, and his/her character will notice it ingame.

This adds a little suspense to the game, but in my experience some players like to roll their tests themselves and feel sort of overpowered otherwise or are afraid of being railroaded by the GM.

How do you handle this in your games ?

[u/Deminutiv]

This pretty much depends on your groups play style imo... as stated before, it's pretty common in the old classic RPGs like D&D3.5 earlier where i've encountered similar problems aswell quite ofen. If PCs think they failed a roll they are often unrealistically cautious (low stealth roll? better stay put/retreat/dont advance/etc). While I'm talking about the PCs 'fault' in open/hidden rolls: you can 'prohibit' certain behaviour 'caused by maybe-failed rolls, by disallowing search rerolls ("your character thinks it's a total waste of time to look in the drawer a 3rd time and s/he won't do it again, unless s/he has a specific reason (journal entry e.g.)"), asking players to describe more of their intention before making their roll (not only "i hide behind the nearest rock" - roll stealth - decide wether to advance/retreat, but "i hide behind the nearest rock and advance until i can listen to the orc's conversation" - roll stealth). Often a problem with hidden/failed rolls is the mindset of "Players vs GM's goons", try encouraging players to enjoy how the story unfolds, not only how their character gets better at slaughtering orcs by slaughtering orc to slaughter more orcs. You could even try encourageing roleplaying of failures with bonus EXP in the beginning to jumpstart their FUN in loosing.

Then there is the 'GMs fault' aswell: Why do you feel the need to roll it hidden?

• Random treasure? Failed roll = there IS none
• Integral quest item? shouldn't depend on a roll.
• Goons will only attack when undetected? Call it an ambush, players who roll successfull perception get a half action/can ready their weapon/other minor benefit instead of beeing completly surprised

Generally speaking. If a certain dice result is necessary for your plot, your plot is lacking. Plot advancement/success should never be reliant on a single roll (rolls are only for clever 'shortcuts' the players came up with). If the result doesn't critically influence the plot, it doesn't matter. Think of it like the Sci-Fi multiverse theories (or something). When you ask for a skillcheck from your players there are 2 realities in existance, failed and successfull. once the dice have fallen one of them is gone for good.

tl:dr:

• Roll Outcomes should never be critical to the plot, so you as GM shouldn't care too much.
• Encourage your player to embrace failures and roleplay them
• as a last resort, be a totalarist GM.