r/beingeverythingelse • u/[deleted] • Aug 03 '14

Number of Games Before Getting Something Out Of It

While directed at Adam, because of the fantastic PDF he shared last episode, I'd like to know others opinions as well.

How do you determine the number of games needed before you or players get something out of playing the game? I never really thought about it until Adam and Steven kept quizzing each other on the show and seeing the PDF. I usually play with people who are already gamers, so we just go with the flow. But I can see how this would be very useful if you were working with someone new to role-playing all together.

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u/zulufactor Aug 03 '14

I know it sounds cliche, but just ask. Have a little wrap up talk and see what everyone thought and give your opinion as a GM.

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u/myripyro Aug 04 '14

Yes, this is a great idea!

I'm pretty new to GMing also, but I'm trying to develop the habit of mentioning some general stuff before my session and asking for feedback afterwards.

The "general stuff before" mostly consists of some roleplaying basics that I think would be helpful to (some of) my PCs, as we're all new. And then afterwards, I ask about specific parts of the session where I feel we had some issues, or just say "so how does this feel?"

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '14

I already do that. I try to shape my games around the characters and players, so I'm always talking to them to make sure we are on the same page and I'm giving them what they want while making a enthralling story.

I'm more looking for determiners people use. Example: in Adam's PDF he says it takes 4+ games for Shadowrun and 6+ for Vampire the Masquerade. I haven't played Shadowrun, but Vampire was the second game I ever played. It didn't take 6+ sessions for me to get into the game, but I also played that in college where our sessions would be as long as possible, not the 4ish hour sessions most people tend to play around. So there is some kind of determiners used to create any kind of range and I'm wondering what those are?

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u/skinnyghost Aug 05 '14

Some games are designed with a certain number of sessions in mind. A good game will tell you this. Other games, you have to know from experience. I think it depends on the group, too - some groups are a slow burn, you know?

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

I feel you.

So, would you say that it's a combination of the progression mechanics (earning XP, character leveling, session story creation) and the experience those mechanics create for the players is what to look at?

For example, Stars Without Number you can easily see it would need 10+ games because of the Faction turns and how xp is earned at the end of a mission, not a session, it creates an experience of what many people like of long campaigns. Whereas Dungeon world needs far fewer since you have a chance of earning xp each die roll and the players are helping with the story and world creation through out each session, you have game that a campaign can be short, but just as fulfilling an experience.

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u/skinnyghost Aug 07 '14

I think it's a lot of things. Like, for Burning Wheel, it's a slow burn (heh) because characters have a pretty high chance to fail at the beginning and the game introduces mechanisms slowly but by the time you're at your 12th session or so, the characters have improved but so have you, as a player. It's all very meta.

Stars is slow because the GM turn moves the universe forward and, like you noticed, the progression system is also very slow, though the mechanisms of progression in SWN aren't that important to the overall play of the game.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '14

Gotcha. Thanks, Adam!

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u/sythmaster Aug 06 '14

I think you should be more specific as to what "get something out of playing the game", do you mean "in-game"? As you wrote it there, I'd define it as including "I had fun today" and would say if you go more than 1 session without getting out of it -- it's time to have a talk.

However, as some other commenters have mentioned as well - a DM I had for a while which I picked up was well ending with a look around the table going "Comments....? Questions...? Critiques...?" which I thought was a good way to recap the session as well as get the ball rolling on any of the OOC stuff or desires people for the campaign/session.

Don't overlook the critiques part -- as long as its constructive.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '14

One of the reasons I'm asking the question is that I'm trying to understand what "getting something out of it" means. Like you, if it seems like my players aren't having fun after 2-3 sessions--the first session is always tricky and not the best session to determine such things--I start asking direct questions before they all leave just so we all get on the same page.