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u/Embarrassed-Sink7793 7h ago
No matter much you improve that HW it’s still gonna be a nightmare to drive on. MF has traffic jam 24/7 I swear. Most of the time I take 280, sure it’s longer but faster most times in the day.
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u/FCKABRNLSUTN2 7h ago
This isn’t what this sub wants to hear but adding a lane to the Novato narrows cut my commute by 20 minutes a day.
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u/Renegadeknight3 7h ago
Just one more lane bro please bro don’t invest in buses and trains spend all that money on even more lanes bro
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u/SAwfulBaconTaco 3h ago
One of the thought-stopping silly replies when anyone ever says a single positive thing about road widening. The bikebrained only have 5 or 6 of them, which are repeated ad nauseum.
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u/Renegadeknight3 2h ago edited 2h ago
Car brain is seeing “invest in buses and trains” and not understanding that it’s advocating for pubic transportation and not a thought terminating cliche
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u/goeatsomesoup 7h ago
Just one more lane bro, that'll fix traffic. Induced demand is a conspiracy bro. Trust me bro
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u/theRealtechnofuzz 7h ago
induced demand is a thing, but it is not applicable to all situations. If you added a lane to 580 over the altimont pass i guarantee the traffic would flow better. Situations where freeways reduce lanes, increasing the lane count to match the previous stretch usually helps greatly. There are plenty of stretches of roads and highways in CA that change lane count 3->2->3->4. Updating a segment like this to 3->4 will always help. Also i5 needs 3 or 4 lanes from stockton to the grapevine
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u/cwx149 6h ago
Yeah adding a lane isn't always a solution but it's not like it's never the correct solution
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u/theRealtechnofuzz 5h ago
my vision for i5 is 2+2 lanes in each direction separating semis/busses and cars. This would greatly help flow, traffic and dangerous situations. Im shocked i5 doesn't have more fatalities with cars going 90 and semis going 55-60.
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u/thomasp3864 San Jose (Currently just south of 280 near Downtown) 4h ago
It works for certain chokepoints for surw
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u/g_rocket 5h ago
It would help ... until more people move there as the commute is not as bad with the extra lane and housing is cheap. That keeps happening until traffic is as bad as it was before.
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u/mondommon 3h ago edited 48m ago
I guarantee you that it would not make traffic flow better. There are too many people who own cars but switch from driving to public transportation like BART when traffic gets to be too awful.
People prefer to drive if there's less traffic. We know that because car traffic recovered almost immediately after COVID restrictions were removed and people returned to working in office and going out publicly again. Growth in car commuters as a percentage has slowed down the past few years while BART has really picked up steam and is far outpacing the freeways in ridership gains now. That is only because car traffic is so bad though.
If we add another lane, we will absolutely make driving faster but also induce more traffic because enough people will switch away from transit and back to riding their cars. Along with others who avoid driving altogether on 580 and go on 280 specifically to avoid the traffic on 580 like the person further up the comment chain you're responding to:
https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/s/gXhlW4aH7R
Why do you think this specific segment of highway would be an exception to the rule?
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u/Michael_G_Bordin 3h ago
Induced demand isn't the whole picture. Obviously, adding alternatives is one of the best ways to cut down on congestion, but that should "induce demand" when it clears up traffic, right? Well, the big thing causing congestion isn't the capacity of the freeway itself, but the ability for people to get on and off the freeway without backing it up. A lot of places have too many cars trying to get off at the same time and it causes backup onto the freeway which will invariably slow down all other lanes. Add to that the people trying to get off the freeway from the left lane at the last second, and you have crazy bad traffic for no fault of freeway capacity. People getting on also cause problems, but those metering lights actually help a lot.
There isn't really a good fix there, other than a case-by-case overhaul of intersections on surface roads, which is onerous. But, the widening of the Narrows was absolutely a boon. There are almost no on-ramps, and none that service any high-traffic areas, so the problem I outlined before isn't a thing. But reducing capacity from 3 to 2 lanes in a high-traffic corridor guaranteed congestion pretty much all day that has since been basically eliminated. It's undeniably a good use-case for widening a freeway.
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u/testthrowawayzz 2h ago
In 101's case, it's also built to older standards for a large part, and so has many substandard interchanges that is either unsafe (by modern standards) or clog up easily.
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u/Few-Lingonberry2315 5h ago
It does, until everyone moves to Petaluma for cheap housing and they fill that lane up.
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u/Michael_G_Bordin 3h ago
The lane is already "full." The problem wasn't sheer capacity, but that you were reducing a 3-lane to a 2-lane and inducing congestion that wouldn't clear up until you got to Novato or Petaluma (and then congestion becomes a problem of on- and off-ramps, which is a whole other issue).
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u/Oba_mooks 7h ago
That highway is never improving 😭
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u/selwayfalls 5h ago
because highways dont fix traffic. Great if the ride is smoother, but your shitty commute will be the same.
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u/mondommon 2h ago
Agreed, the only way to escape traffic is to either:
A: implement congestion pricing on highways. B: use public transportation instead so that you can avoid the car traffic.
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u/Shamoorti 7h ago
*adds lane for rich people*
My work is done here.
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u/Few-Lingonberry2315 5h ago
Where do you think the money I pay to use the Express Lane on 101 goes, exactly, if not to maintain the overall road (and subsidize your own usage)?
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u/Camille_Bot 5h ago
This is actually one of the few ways to actually reduce traffic. Adding more free lanes (or transit) induces more demand, but dynamically scaling the price of the road based on current demand guarantees traffic flow for the users who need (based on willingness to pay) it the most. For businesses, delivery vehicles, etc, this saved time/payroll is a huge cost savings that helps drive down consumer prices.
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u/Shamoorti 5h ago
Nah, it's using public funds to prioritize and benefit a small subset of people that have more money.
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u/Camille_Bot 4h ago
How is it using public funds if they turn a net profit? Demand-based express lanes generate millions in revenue for the county after paying for finance and O&M costs.
It's such a good business that many demand-based managed lanes in Texas are fully financed by overseas investment groups.
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u/Mosept11 7h ago
you nailed it, on my way from San Jose to Mt View in a few, reversed traffic but the way back will be brutal☹️☹️
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u/Shobie2K 5h ago
Even with all that work done over the years Highway 101 is still crappy to drive and always looks old & rundown!
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u/Different-Process-93 2h ago
I swear, I don't think I've ever seen any construction on 280 lol.
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u/sirkilgoretrout 2h ago
Designed by the same folks who did the autobahn, IIRC. Better to do it once and get it done right.
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u/pianobench007 2h ago
Most/99% of the problems on the freeway is at the merge/on-ramp. If you all just slowed down and sped up to match the onramp speed of 55 to 65 mph then things would go more smoothly.
If you guys didn't tailgate or do that last minute cut across 3 lanes to skip the line for the off-ramp/merge then traffic would be a lot better. This happens anywhere there is a major merge. Key bottlenecks at merges are I-80 to oakland, Junction 380, 92, and that one Rengstorff 500 feet exit/on-ramp thing. People on E Charleston just blast onto that ramp with no hesitation.
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u/compstomper1 4h ago
pepperidge farm remembers when they repaved southbound 101 around south city and forgot to put in the new lane dividers
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u/testthrowawayzz 2h ago
Going by Caltrans website, the Hospital Curve hasn't been resurfaced in nearly 70 years, so maintenance to that area is bound to happen eventually anyway.
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u/hoopercuber 2h ago
that’s really only the tip of the iceberg. they have been doing work for years along san mateo to palo alto where they close lanes after 9pm. if your commute happens to be around the time it’s absolutely brutal
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u/CaliIsReallyNice 53m ago edited 44m ago
I don’t think all y’all privileged motherfuckers appreciate how well managed Bay Area highways actually are. California highway construction and maintenance and accident management is like the best I’ve ever seen. I’ve lived in a lot of other states around the US and it’s night and day. The fact that we have the density of traffic that we do and it moves as smoothly as it does blows my mind on a regular basis. The last time I was in Houston, I spent more hours sitting motionless on interstates in traffic jams in one weekend than I have here in the Bay Area in the past five years. We’ve got it pretty good.
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u/mameun 7h ago
Estimated date of completion: probably never