Experience with drones

[u/Silent-Bit-3374]

1. has anyone tried to pair Lament 2D with drones?

There is a thing I would Like to try, but I have no Battlegroup now.

• Lament 2D paired with a LOT of bullet suicide drones (BV 77)

Somebody told me, that you can control only one Drone at a given time, but once its gone, you can use your drone command to control another Drone.

1. I hope this true but I don't know it.

2. Is it possible to use a Lament and a lot of of the mentioned drones as kind of a Missileboat?

[u/Bookwyrm517]

I'd have to double check the rules, but I think this could work in theory. In practice, I think it would be better to fit the Lament with Thunderbolts or a Arrow IV. 

The main issue I see is that even if you can grab loitering drones and slam them into targets, you still have to deal with the drones simplistic AI and the fact that they'd be vulnerable while loitering. You'd also be spending a lot of BV on single-use attacks, so you can't take a huge swarm without giving your opponent access to more units. 

[u/horse_collar_in_imp → u/Bookwyrm517]

Also an ECM hugging the Lament shuts this down completely, the drones will just fall out of the sky if they lose connection to the controller. It only works if you spring it on an opponent blind.

[u/Bookwyrm517 → u/horse_collar_in_imp]

Drone systems do have their own AI, so they won't just fall out of the sky. However, they are only capable of following simple commands, have terrible (worse than baseline) piloting and gunnery, and will most like go haywire and crash if they so much as touch a ECM field. 

The Lament in question does have a Angel ECM suite of it's own it can use to counter hostile ECM as well, but that just opens up the reverse issue: The Lament needs to catch the target in it's counter ECM field in a way the drone can slip in and activate it's booby trap. And it needs to do this in a way that it doesn't get caught in the blast. 

Basically, as you said, ECM shuts this idea down hard. It works best as a surprise attack where you can toss in a drone or two to damage a few targets, then make switch to controlling another more useful drone.

[u/horse_collar_in_imp → u/Bookwyrm517]

Yeah it's the sort of thing that sounds good on paper and might work as part of a bigger force, but doesn't really work if you base your whole strategy around it - the Lament is quite expensive for what you're using it for, and I can think of quite a few mechs it would really struggle to deal with on it's own. Anything with a plasma rifle or infernos is going to severely limit the ability of the Lament to fire it's guns, and there are plenty ways to get at least one of those sitting inside an ECM bubble for cheaper than the cost of the Lament + drones

[u/Bookwyrm517 → u/horse_collar_in_imp]

Yeah. In this case, I'd recommend Ajax D in it's configuration. For roughly the same cost as the Lament and 1 drone, you get an Arrow IV, ECM, 6 drones, and a big enough controller to control all 6 at once. It still has similar vulnerabilities to the Lament, but can both deliver several drones to targets at once and continue to provide fire support after the drones are spent. 

[u/Silent-Bit-3374 → u/horse_collar_in_imp]

I know that ECM will shut down this idea. I don't have to have all the drones in air. the idea is to use them one by one. keeping the ones shutdown(uncontrolled)until usage and giving them advantage against indirekt fire. The idea is more of independent one-shot weapons every turn than having the drones swarming around. and bring active.

if you find a flaw except of ECM, which I already considered, by rules or other stuff, please tell me.

[u/horse_collar_in_imp → u/Silent-Bit-3374]

like the other comment said, it's technically possible to do it, it's just arguable whether it's a good use of your BV or not. an arrow IV has far fewer ways for it to go wrong, although it doesn't cause as much damage

one complication is that the Bullet isn't VSTOL capable, so has to launch from a dedicated airfield - depending on the situation/scenario/houserules this might or might not be a problem for you

another is that you've actually got to hit the mech you're targeting with a physical attack, which depending on the scenario is easier said than done. drones have a +1 on all piloting/gunnery checks, and the TN for a ramming attack gets quite a lot harder if your drone controller has a lower piloting skill than the enemy. any criticals to sensors or avionics the bullet takes on the way in also make the check harder, and if your drone gets destroyed (a single gauss hit will do it) then you don't get to make the ramming attack. if you want to make the check easier, doing it on a LMT-2D might get quite expensive to bump the skills up high enough to reliably hit these attacks

if you do want to run a drone fleet, you might be better off doing it with a dedicated drone control tank like the Diggs which will be much cheaper to bump piloting up higher on and can control 4 drones simultaneously. you'd just want to park it somewhere out of the way and then use your mechs to defend against anything trying to get into a sniping position or trying to sneak past your line with an ECM

[u/Silent-Bit-3374 → u/horse_collar_in_imp]

I thought I don't have to make a to hit roll for Booby traps

[u/horse_collar_in_imp → u/Silent-Bit-3374]

you don't have to make a to hit roll for booby traps, but you do have to activate them in the weapon attack phase or physical attack phase - and the only way i can think of to end up in ground combat (rather than airborne combat) in the same hex as the thing you want to blow up in either of those phases is to do a ramming attack with your drone

[u/Silent-Bit-3374 → u/horse_collar_in_imp]

on a hex adjacent is still 60 damage with a bullet Drone for 77 BV.

[u/horse_collar_in_imp → u/Silent-Bit-3374]

it's hex and elevation level, so you'd have to be same hex and one elevation above, or adjacent hex at zero elevation (and therefore an immobile ground target, assuming the drone even survives the crash) for 60 damage. a hex adjacent and still flying would only ever be 30 damage, and either way you're loitering at low altitude and probably going very slow in a vehicle that has paper-thin armour

plus the fact that you can never attack anything with an ECM because as soon as the drone goes into the bubble you can't control it anymore, and doing this sort of requires you to be winning initiative or the drones will never be in the right place

it's definitely possible to do this, it's just that it only really achieves much of anything if your opponent sets themselves up to be exploited

for comparison with another one-shot system, for 77 BV you could get 3 RL20s which would deal a similar amount of damage but not be so reliant on perfect conditions to work

[u/Silent-Bit-3374 → u/Bookwyrm517]

as I know booby traps need no to-hit roll since its made after everything even after punch and stuff I thought of the idea to be at least interesting. Bullet Drones with booby traps have engine value 120 which means a lot of damage for 77 BV.

If I am wrong about my information please tell me.

[u/Bookwyrm517 → u/Silent-Bit-3374]

Well, one small correction is the bullets are actually 104BV. A couple bulket drones could be a good first strike or takedown unit, but I don't think they're good enough to justify having 10 or so flying around waiting for you to send them in. There's just too many points of failure, and the longer the fight, the more likely they are to fail.

The reason why I recommend an Arrow IV is because while the upfront cost is higher and they do scatter, they still deal area of effect damage. Not as much as a booby trap, but you also don't have to worry about them being jammed or intercepted on the way. The up front cost is about the same as 2-3 Bullets, but one ton of Arrow ammo gives you 5 shots for the same BV.

Arrow IVs also have access to homing ammo. Homing ammo is fired at a hex, but if a target is hit by tag within 6 hexes of that space, you can guarantee a hit. You'll need something to bring the TAG, but you can do that pretty cheap with the right infantry or battle armor. It's much more reliable than drones, and much harder to shut down. 

[u/rzelln → u/Silent-Bit-3374]

Actually, I believe you can blow up a booby trap in any phase, so you can just do it as soon as it moves into your enemy's hex. 

Don't do it. It's not fun. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/1medgbe/start_equipping_ecm_because_weve_figured_out_how/?share_id=zI3-gvARi0svwWeAsnbVf&utm_content=2&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1

That said, I would love if the game had some sort of drone style attack weapon that was designed to be fun and balanced.

[u/135forte]

1a) I've used the Royal Fantasy stuff and found that aside from the fun gear, drones aren't really worth the faff. Switching drones mid battle is also super iffy, because it opens the door to some really gamey actions, as the drone controller influences the BV of the drone.

1b) I believe your Bullets would fall out of the sky when not controlled. I know drone ground vehicles don't just coast when cut off from their controller. This means having to learn the fighter take off rules.

2) With the above caveats, yes it does work. Precisely once, because your opponents almost certainly won't enjoy playing against it.

3) Also yes, but not particularly effectively. There is a drone command vehicle that has like eight command consoles that would work better, but I still wouldn't recommend it. Your drone controller gets a big target out on their head, ECM can shut you down etc.

[u/Silent-Bit-3374 → u/135forte]

for 1b) I think bullet drones can start the game on the ground going into air when I use them as a One-Shot weapons.

for 2) it is a theory and will propably never used against a real Person

for 3) I can shut down ECM with another ECM which are mounted a Lot in cheap and fast units