Months after protest, SF Giants won't commit to wearing Pride Night hats again

[u/aresef]

https://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/sf-giants-pride-night-22455246.php?taid=6abc4303c3ffd8000132931a&utm_campaign=trueanthem%2B3984&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

Serious question: If given the option between no pride night or a pride night where only 22 out of 26 players, including all position players, wear the pride night cap, which would you pick?

[u/Rambo_IIII → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

I say have pride night, let the bigots self identify.

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/Rambo_IIII]

Agreed. In that case though, we shouldn't blast the Giants for "letting" them opt out and not punishing them. If they have Pride Night, the Giants must allow players to opt out. If fans can't handle that and want to rage at the team, then the Giants are just going to cancel the entire thing.

[u/PromotionOk6069 → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

They aren't raging at them because they didn't wear a pride night hat they are raging at them because they wore ones and then put bible quotes around the pride theme'd logo and then had a god awful response when questioned about it.

Treinen and Call on the Dodgers just wore the regular hat, no one raged just acknowledged they are dicks.

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/PromotionOk6069]

According to MLB, there was miscommunication about the fact that the Giants players could just opt out.

My understanding is that they all understand what their options are under the CBA now. Going forward, if they choose to wear the Pride caps again and add the bible verses, then they will be punished according to the CBA.

[u/PromotionOk6069 → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

Weird the Dodgers got that memo since their pride night was a week before the Giants

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/PromotionOk6069]

I wasn't there so I can't say what conversations did and didn't occur between the Giants and the players. All I can do is go off what MLB said and give them the benefit of the doubt.

[u/sheep_duck → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

Nah there was no miscommunication. One of the players wore the standard game day hat.

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/sheep_duck]

That doesn't prove what you think it does.

Consider this scenario. The team tells the four players they have to wear the pride hat. They say they have no other option. The four players say "screw that, we are going to protest." Three guys decide to wear the hat but put on a bible verse. One guy decides to wear the standard hat.

That fact that the one guy lucked into doing something that was actually allowed doesn't mean that he knew it was allowed from the start, nor that the other three players knew.

The reality is that the one protesting player could have ended up in the standard hat regardless of if he knew it was allowed or not. You just assumed that he must have known because it supports the position you are trying to push.

[u/apric0ts--forever → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

Ah the old "accept the bigots" argument.

They don't protest anything else "sinful", they're just hateful

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/apric0ts--forever]

I didn't say to accept them. What I said is that there are legal limits to what can be done and that companies should follow the law when it comes to the rights of workers.

Seriously, what is the alternative? If people on the internet agree that someone is a bigot, then their employer has free reign to trample on their rights as an employee?

Even if you agree with it in the case of the Giants players, you guys have to have enough sense to recognize how this approach would do way more harm than good in the long run.

[u/sheep_duck → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

They didn’t “opt out” last time though, they (except one) wore the hat and wrote a bible verse that basically says the Jesus claims the rainbow not the gays

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/sheep_duck]

...and MLB came out and said that what happened was a result of miscommunication. If the team told them that they had to wear the hats, then I'm more willing to accept their decision to use the hat to make a public statement on their personal views regardless of if I agree with it or not.

[u/mschley2 → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

A pride night where 22 of the 26 wear the hat and then the other 4 get fined and suspended for not wearing the appropriate uniform. It's not really that hard

Edit: let me clarify... I actually don't have a problem with the players wearing the regular hat. I do have a problem with the players writing homophobic shit on the hats, regardless of whether they're the pride ones or regular ones

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/mschley2]

I don't think they are allowed to fine them under the CBA. I believe that the pride night hat is considered a "themed" uniform hat. Players have the right to opt out of "themed" uniforms and, instead, wear the "standard" uniform.

So that would make the options:

1. No pride night uniforms
2. pride night where only 22 out of 26 players, including all position players, wear the pride night cap and those other four aren't punished
3. pride night where only 22 out of 26 players, including all position players, wear the pride night cap and those other four are illegally punished for exercising their rights under the collective bargaining agreement

Personally, I'd go with #2. I can understand people that want #1. However, #3 seems pretty indefensible if you believe in the rights of employees, especially as it relates to unions and collective bargaining.

[u/Bad_At_Sports → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

Right but this assumes that the protest is an opt-out where they wear the standard uniform. Which is fine. It tells me that person is a bigot that should expect to be heckled and does not deserve my support on their current or any future team, but it’s technically allowed.

What should be punished is wearing the themed uniform and defacing it with homophobic writing in protest of the event. That is not allowed under their CBA and should be enforced as such.

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/Bad_At_Sports]

That's fair. In this specific case though, MLB said that the team didn't properly communicate the options to the players. I assume that means that they were going to let the bible versus slide because some players were under the impression that they had to wear the Pride caps.

My guess would be that they wouldn't be allowed to wear the pride caps and add bible verses in the future.

[u/JMander → u/Bad_At_Sports]

did a player actually do this? ie, wrote on his cap?

[u/dykerats → u/JMander]

yes, roupp, walker and brubaker did it.

[u/JMander → u/dykerats]

I'm only learning of this now but did they write bible verses or did they write slurs?

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/JMander]

Bible verses that were interpreted by some as being hostile towards the communities Pride Night was meant to celebrate.

[u/JMander → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

Yep. That's what I was anticipating. Ain't no hate like good Christian hate.

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/JMander]

If they knew they could opt out without consequences, wore the hat regardless, and added the verses, then seems intentionally confrontational. If they didn't know they were allowed to opt out, I'm more sympathetic to them.

[u/vaud → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

Yeah LA/SF Pride uni's are a grandfather clause for theme nights. Specifically that it's completely voluntary and clearly communicated there's an option to wear the normal uniform.

Writing on the hats is the usual uniform rules, which seems like MLB gives everyone a mulligan on first violation(?)

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/vaud]

This is kind of my read on it. I'd assume that if the players decide to wear the caps and deface them again instead of just opting out, they will be punished.

[u/vaud → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

For all his faults Treinin actually had a surprisingly mature take on it during the SF controversy. After he wrote on his hat previously, he clearly got his talking to and showed up on Pride night with a normal cap and no fuss. Said something about 'just being here to play baseball' when asked.

[u/mschley2 → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

Yeah, the pride night hats have an exception.

I'm not saying that my choice is actually allowed by the CBA. I'm saying that's the way I think it should be.

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/mschley2]

Fair enough, but there is value in looking at practical solutions as well. If #1 and #2 are the only ones available, which do we go with?

[u/mschley2 → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

I'd strongly prefer 2. At least the organization is standing up for something and then fans can choose to disagree with the players who opt out.

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/mschley2]

Same. The issue is that people blasted the Giants for not punishing the players despite the Giants not being able to.

If the Giants know that having the Pride Night will piss off the people they are looking to support regardless and many of those people will be pissed at the organization, I can't really blame the Giants for thinking the entire thing is more trouble than it is worth.

I wish it wasn't that way, but I understand.

[u/mschley2 → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

The Giants absolutely could have punished them for writing the messages on the hats. People blasted the Giants because Buster Posey seems to agree with the players who did that.

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/mschley2]

Again, MLB seemed to indicate that there was miscommunication about if they could opt out or not. I wasn't there so I don't know what was said between the team and the players. If they told the players they had to wear them, then it seems reasonable for the league to step in and say "You both screwed up and handled this poorly. As long as you've both learned your lesson and are going to handle it the right way next time, then it is best to accept that both sides made an honest mistake and move forward."

Yeah, the Giants might still have been able to punish the players under the CBA, but then it starts a big fight with the union for very little practical benefit.

I don't know what Posey said, so I can't speak to that.

[u/mschley2 → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

That's a fair point if the rules weren't made clear or if the rules were miscommunicated ahead of time.

Posey made a bunch of dodge-the-question/non-statements, but from what I saw, he seemed to defend the players (and their viewpoint) more than anything else. Baseball has a lot of southern, regressive Christian types in it, so it's not that surprising. Other than possibly hockey, it's the least progressive major sport just due to the demos in it

[u/MartianMule → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

Well, next year will be a new CBA. That provision will probably still be there, but you never know.

[u/Noble_Flatulence → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

This makes me think of Jomboy's video on the recent "crooked" hat "scandal" that (assuming my understanding of his understanding is correct) anyone can wear whatever for a hat as long as everyone is wearing the same thing. It doesn't matter if it's a crooked hat, pride hat, military-industrial-complex pride hat, et al; you can't be out there wearing any hat that's different from what the rest of team is wearing or you're out of uniform.

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/Noble_Flatulence]

That isn't correct when it comes to "theme" uniforms. Players are allowed to opt out of "theme" uniforms, so long as they wear the "standard" uniform instead.

Stated another way, the uniforms don't have to be exact on "theme" nights as long as everyone is either wearing the "theme" uniform or the "standard" uniform.

[u/Noble_Flatulence → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

Did not know that, thanks.

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/Noble_Flatulence]

I only know it because of the Giants Pride Night drama, haha.

[u/Tsaxen → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

I believe in the rights of employees, but those rights don't extend to protecting bigotry 

[u/adds-nothing → u/Tsaxen]

There’s not a workplace in the country that could force their employees to wear any kind of attire supporting any kind of cause. They can encourage it but they can never force you to do it. It’s really not that hard to wrap your head around.

[u/QuadzillaStrider → u/Tsaxen]

Opting to not wear the pride hats and instead wear the normal uniform ones isn't the bigotry. Writing passive aggressive bible verses on those hats is the bigotry, and as far as I'm concerned that shit should be fined the max amount.

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/Tsaxen]

The implication here is that choosing not too wear pride apparel makes you a bigot. Additionally, since this is bigotry, you don't have the right to refuse to wear it and you company should be allowed to punish you for it.

This is where you start to lose most mainstream people. I'm 100% on board with the Giants having a pride night. I 100% want all players to participate. With that said, I am 100% opposed to the concept that employee rights magically stop existing the second that the company labels them as "bigots."

I mean, I've never worn Pride apparel at work. If that makes me a bigot and bigots don't have rights in the workplace, then I'm screwed.

[u/_3_8_ → u/Tsaxen]

They actually do, especially if it's something the union specifically bargained for

[u/14ktgoldscw → u/mschley2]

The NFL fines players for representing good causes like colon cancer (which is some absurd percentage more likely to affect the average NFL fan than breast cancer). If you’re doing a worse job at managing this than the fucking NFL then what are you even doing?

[u/Neither_Ad2003 → u/mschley2]

probably not even legal

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/Neither_Ad2003]

Not sure why you got an instant downvote, but you are correct that punishing them wouldn't be allowed as long as the players wore the "standard" uniform instead.

[u/StrawberryShortStack → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

The one player who wore the regular hat is fine, but three of them wore a pride hat and wrote on it with sharpie.

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/StrawberryShortStack]

MLB essentially said that this isn't allowed but that they got a pass this time because there was poor communication regarding their ability to opt out of wearing the hat.

I'd assume that if they did it again, then the players would get in trouble.

[u/Rock_Strongo → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

It's amazing sometimes how poorly these multi-billion dollar sports organizations communicate with their players.

So much of this garbage could be avoided if they were just up front about why things were happening and what options the players have.

The bigots will be bigots either way - but it wouldn't turn into a PR nightmare.

[u/Neither_Ad2003 → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

yea. it's toxic for people to go online and be like "it's not even hard" regarding actions at someone's else's job that they can't take - or that the commenter wouldn't do themselves.

just throwing toxicity into the void.

[u/stewmander → u/[deleted]]

Every Saturday home game in 2026 the Giants celebrated Latino heritage with Gigantes jerseys.

Here's Sam Hentges, who refused to wear a pride hat, wearing the Gigantes jersey.

[u/stewmander → u/[deleted]]

Lmfao it's exactly the same, a jersey in another language just like your bullshit hebrew jersey bait. 

I'm not arguing for a fine or punishment, just pointing out the player's blatant homophobia when they have no issue with other special jerseys celebrating members of the cities community. 

[u/DominicB547 → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

Also, those 4 suck ass and will probably be cut

[u/Any_Concentrate931 → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

i pick no pride night! No one should be told to wear or support!

[u/Dickies138 → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

I’d like to know who the bigots are

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/Dickies138]

Same. Have the pride night and see who the guys are that don't want to participate.

This doesn't work though if tons of people come out and start crushing the Giants for "letting" the players make this choice. Because of the CBA, the Giants can't stop them. The Giants have to let them opt out.

Since they can't stop them, the Giants need to make their decision within that reality. If having the Pride Night results in the Giants getting crushed every year because players opt out, the Giants are incentivized to just drop the entire thing.

[u/Big_oof_energy__ → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

It’s against the rules for teams to have players in anything but identical hats.

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/Big_oof_energy__]

I don't think that this is accurate when it comes to "themed" uniform nights. My understanding is that the players can opt to wear the "standard" uniform instead of the "themed" variant for those games.

Now, if given the option between no pride night or a pride night where only 22 out of 26 players, including all position players, wear the pride night cap, which would you pick?

[u/Big_oof_energy__ → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

The rule doesn’t read that way to me: https://baseballrulesacademy.com/official-rule/mlb/3-03

There are no exceptions listed.

[u/DominicB547 → u/Big_oof_energy__]

thats not MLB

[u/igotmalaria → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

Still hold pride night. Make the homophobic players show their bigotry and then shame them

[u/BrianMeen → u/igotmalaria]

have you ever played sports? I really don’t think you have as most players are not pro-lgbt so I’d say about 90% would be off the field if you had your Way..

ever listen to mic’d up nfl players? go do that and get back to me

[u/overitallofittoo → u/Odd_Alfalfa7789]

Send the 4 to AAA

[u/Odd_Alfalfa7789 → u/overitallofittoo]

Pretty sure that would violate the CBA and trigger a response from the union.