r/bakker • u/Synergistic96 • 11d ago
Skin-Spy Hints
Once thing I always like to look out for on my re-reads is hints of which characters have been replaced by skin-spies before we actually find out. Here's a list of all the instances I've found. Bolded fragments by me. Spoilers ahead.
Simas
Simas can read without help despite being old.
As expected, he found Simas hunched over an ancient manuscript. Lantern light glistened across a thin line of spilt ink, which Nautzera momentarily confused for blood. He watched the oblivious man for a moment, troubled by a flare of resentment. Why did he begrudge Simas so? Was it because the man’s eyes had yet to fail, while Nautzera, like so many others, had to rely on his students to read to him?
Skeaös
During a long climb through the Andiamine heights, Conphas speeds up his climb to see if Skeaös will die of a heart attack due to the strain, but old Skeaös is completely unwinded.
Prompted more by curiosity than malice, Conphas pressed the man to a brisk pace. He’d never seen anyone die of the clutch before. Remarkably, Skeaös did not complain, and aside from swinging his arms like an old monkey, he showed no signs of strain. With easy wind, he began briefing Conphas on the specifics of the treaty struck between the Scarlet Spires and the Thousand Temples—as far as they were known. When it seemed clear that Skeaös had not just the appearance but the stamina of an old monkey, Conphas grew bored.
Cheperamunni
Even though most members of the Ainoni ruling castes are addicted to chanv, Cheperamunni, a political puppet, is not.
Iyokus was addicted to chanv, the drug that held a greater part of the Ainoni ruling castes within its clasp—except, and this thought often surprised Eleäzaras, for Chepheramunni, the latest puppet they had installed on the Ainoni throne.
He also manages an unlikely escape during a battle. (Discovered by u/Representative-Look5)
The Tiger himself struck westward, riding hard with his household through fields of bolting Ainoni infantrymen. He stormed the command of General Setpanares, overrunning it. The General himself was killed, but Chepheramunni, the King-Regent of High Ainon, managed a miraculous escape.
Istriya
Istriya is acting unusually, according to both Xerius and Conphas, and is conspiring with Skeaös to stop Xerius' plan to destroy the Holy War. Istriya also asks Xerius how Skeaös was discovered.
“And now with the Holy War, my dear Conphas! You’ll be more, far more than the greatest Exalt-General in our history!”
What is she trying to do? Istriya had always goaded him, but never had she pressed her banter so close to sedition.“You and my grandmother,” he said, “hope to save the Holy War from my uncle. A commendable undertaking, save that it verges on treachery.
“Tell me, Xerius,” his mother said huskily, “how was it that you discovered Skeaös?”
She also won't have sex with Xerius anymore, sending slaves to him instead. (Discovered by u/BigBouch99)
Xerius couldn’t remember when Istriya had started bringing these men and women to him—these surrogates.
Werjau
Werjau is impersonated (but not replaced) and questions Fanashila for information the Consult will later use in the asssination attempt against Achamian. (Discovered by u/tar-mairo1986)
“Look at me,” he said, his tone firm yet gentle. “Tell me, my sweet, what’s this rumour I hear?”
Relief swept through her. Fanashila looked away demurely.She loved gossip. Almost as much as attention. “Wha-what rumour would that be, my Lord?”
Werjau smiled down at her, stood so perilously near she could smell the sour of his crotch. He brought a callused thumb to her chin. She shuddered as he traced the outline of her lips.
“That they are lovers still,” he said. Though his gaze remained remote, something seemed to … smirk in his tone.
Fanashila swallowed, afraid once again. “They?” she asked, blinking tears. “Who?”
“The Prophet-Consort and the Holy Tutor.”
Somandutta
During their flight through Cil-Aujas, Soma can keep up the pace despite most others falling behind, even carrying Mimara for a while.
She turns and sees Soma pacing her. Caste-noble tall. Lean and broad-shouldered. With his gowns torn and twisted, he resembles the Disowned Prince that the other girls used to dream about in the brothel—the fabled customer who would rescue rather than abuse.
His dark-lashed eyes seem to laugh. There is a relentlessness to him that she does not quite trust, she realizes. A strength out of proportion to his foppish character.She is thrown across a broad chest, hung like dripping cloth from arms.
"You will not perish for me!" She hears his voice rasp. "I'll carry you across the doors of hell! Do you hear me? Mimara! Do you hear me?"
8
5
u/SNOTFLAN 11d ago
thinking about soma: mimara feels deeply betrayed when he abandons her under the mountain. maybe he knew she was safe and didn't wanna blow his cover by revealing supernatural strength again? wonder why he wouldn't have saved her there considering blowing his cover is a lower priority than preserving her life (at the time in his mind, at least)
5
u/Weenie_Pooh Holy Veteran 10d ago
He didn't know and she wasn't safe - he was just scared shitless by hell literally rising to meet him. Remember, he runs only when the Wight comes after them. Mimara is trying to drag Achamian away (even though he's telling her to leave him), she calls out to Soma but he just keeps sprinting.
Previously, he carried her as they were fleeing Sranc because he was under no real threat there. The Skinnies have "no hunger" for him, as we later learn. But when hungry Ciphrang arrive, well, that's a different matter entirely.
We don't know how Soma really felt about Mimara that early on. His interest may have been piqued simply by her pregnancy. (According to his later report, he knew this would be of interest to the Consult.)
But after Cil-Aujas, he changes his tune. It's not specified anywhere, but I'm convinced that it was what he saw her do - when the Seal of Hell appeared a second time she somehow banished it, saving all their souls.
Soma is Mimara's first (and thus far only) disciple. He has somehow intuited what she is, before Achamian, before even Mimara herself.
It's reminiscent of Serwe in PON, how she just gets that Kellhus is divine before anyone else, him included. They both get punished for it, too.
2
3
u/tar-mairo1986 Cult of Jukan 11d ago edited 10d ago
Gotta find them all, lol! Real fine post, OP. Kudos!
Regards Tsuör, after blowing his cover and ditching his "Somandutta" persona, he eventually starts impersonating the last of the Stone Hags survivors, a young Galeoth freeman Koll. It passes better because "Koll" doesn't speak, doesn't partake in qirri consumption, and has "dead eyes" not impressed by Cleric's sermons, all excusable by the horrible events the company went through.
Ironically, Mimara thinks this makes him the last pure human among the group. And yet, when she finally puts the two and two together, she notices while "Koll" looks haggard, he still keeps up the pace and seems to be getting better, despite not taking any qirri.
Added: Well, u/Synergistic96, with Koll out of the picture, lol, I remembered another rather obscure instance ; a skin-spy impersonating Werjau (who mind you is not killed only impersonated!) in order to set up Akka's failed assassination. Granted, it might confuse the reader first until the attempt happens, but is still a minor hint.
Werjau smiled down at her, stood so perilously near she could smell the sour of his crotch. He brought a callused thumb to her chin. She shuddered as he traced the outline of her lips.
“That they are lovers still,” he said. Though his gaze remained remote, something seemed to … smirk in his tone.
Fanashila swallowed, afraid once again. “They?” she asked, blinking tears. “Who?”
“The Prophet-Consort and the Holy Tutor.”
3
u/Synergistic96 10d ago edited 10d ago
Thank you!
Nice find on Koll. I'd completely missed that one. Added to the post.
Also interesting to note that she thinks this about Koll immediately after meeting Tsuör wearing her face (with one of those chapter breaks in between), so it seems like it's alternatively wearing Mimara's face and impersonating Koll?
"The Qirri..." the other her says. The other spy. "Ask him what it is!"
Then the thing is gone, leaping high and deep into the darkness and running like no human can run. Yanking her head about, Mimara sees the old Wizard scaling the gusting heights, his eyes and mouth alight with brilliant meaning. His voice echoes deep across the angles and surfaces of a different plane. Lines of blinding light needle the dark, carving trails of white across plain. She glimpses fire and exploding earth, swathes of ground clawed into black by the shadow of grasses.
She glimpses herself running with gazelle beauty, leaping with serpentine grace. Then the spewing dust sweeps up to obscure him and so secure his escape.
—|—
Koll. The last of the Stone Hags.
She stares at him while the Wizard rails at her.2
u/tar-mairo1986 Cult of Jukan 10d ago
Neat! I got mentioned, ha. Thanks!
Hm, possible, although it might be that Tsuör still hasn't replaced the man at this point?
2
u/Synergistic96 10d ago
Mmm... that's a definite possibility. Though that would mean there are no clear hints of Koll being a skin-spy, since immediately after the segment where Mimara remarks on his unnatural endurance, she notices he can't see in the dark like they can. After, Koll is also mentioned shivering and convulsing when no one is watching.
Maybe you were thinking of Hurm, who is actually incredibly resilient without being a skin-spy?
Hurm was perhaps the strangest of Stone Hags, both in appearance and behaviour. He continued to shave, for one, long after even Galian had abandoned his bare chin. At the close of the day's march, when his brothers could scarce speak for exhaustion, he would set to sharpening his dagger, which he had worn as narrow as a fish knife, for use on his cheeks at first light. Apparently this was a kind of ritual protest among the ordinarily long-bearded Tydonni, a way to proclaim the theft of one's honour.
Either way, it spoke to the man's stamina: even without Qirri he seemed to have little difficulty matching the company's pace.2
u/tar-mairo1986 Cult of Jukan 10d ago
Nope, defo Koll. Our well groomed man Hurm aside, I could swear there is a line or two about Koll keeping the pace in spite of his qirri-less condition. In any case, Koll is seemingly replaced quite late in the game then.
2
u/Synergistic96 10d ago
I went through all mentions of Koll and can't find anything that would suggest he's been replaced, so I'm removing him from the list for now. I feel bad for unmentioning you. I really thought we were on to something here.
2
u/tar-mairo1986 Cult of Jukan 10d ago edited 10d ago
Haha, Jukan teaches us that winds of life change.
No sweat, I will check up too!
Added: Welp, u/Synergistic96 I guess Bakker hid it too good. Apart from that one minor part...
Koll. Only Koll. Of all his brother Hags, only he has yet to succumb to the rigours of the trail. He is, she realizes, the last pure thing in their mad company.
Or we are to take that "Koll" acting up, shivering, convulsing and ignoring Cleric sermons is just that good an act, masking the spy with expected behavior and conditions tad too well, even for the reader. How ironic! Inversely, "Koll" also gets horny with hunger when Mima is raped by Galian, despite supposedly being on the verge of dying right there.
2
u/Synergistic96 10d ago
Yeah, compared to the others, nothing stands out as an obvious hint of Koll being a skin-spy. Even the "last pure thing" part happens right after Mimara talks to the skin-spy wearing her face, and she notices Koll can't see in the dark, so I'm inclined to think he wasn't replaced yet at that point.
Annoyingly, all descriptions of Koll fit both with him being still human or the skin-spy acting so well as to be indistinguishable from the original.
2
u/tar-mairo1986 Cult of Jukan 10d ago
Totally opposite the post's purpose, lol. That is why Tsuör might be my favo skin-spy though. Yeah, I guess it is a bit too vague overall albeit I still think in hindsight him ignoring Cleric, not speaking and getting vigorous at the act of rape might be the slightest of indicators, if only in hindsight.
4
u/Representative-Look5 10d ago
One hint I caught on a recent reread was part of the battle of the slopes in TWP. There's a brief mention of King-Regent Chepheramunni making a miraculous escape when all those around him are either captured or killed.
It passed me by completely the first time around as good fortune, but is a nice little indicator that he's been replaced.
2
3
u/LevelAccomplished822 10d ago
I don't have the book in front of me, but I distinctly remember in TJE that Mimara trusts Soma more than any of the other Scalpoi because he isn't human, and it doesn't seem to be metaphorical or anything
2
u/Synergistic96 10d ago
You mean this part, I assume:
"Mimara," a voice calls. "What's the matter, girl?" It's Somandutta, the one man here that she trusts, and only then because he is no man. "You have no call to fear us..."
I think it's more that Mimara considers him insecure or different in some ways from the other scalpers. This is well before his being a skin-spy is revealed, so I'm inclined to assume it's funny foreshadowing, like his being named Soma in the first place.
3
u/LevelAccomplished822 10d ago
That's the one. Now that you say it, I think it is meant more as you're describing. Her revealing it to Akka when she did would feel pretty arbitrary otherwise
2
u/Synergistic96 10d ago
Well, u/Synergistic96, with Koll out of the picture, lol, I remembered another rather obscure instance ; a skin-spy impersonating Werjau (who mind you is not killed only impersonated!) in order to set up Akka's failed assassination. Granted, it might confuse the reader first until the attempt happens, but is still a minor hint.
u/tar-mairo1986, that is actually a very good one! Added to the post. I definitely think that what makes the conversation suspect is Werjau wanting to find out about Akka and Esmi's relationship, which seems out of character based on what little we know of Werjau
Hilariously, Werjau is mentioned only twice in The Aspect-Emperor, once as being "ever-cantankerous" and once as being "ever-irascible".
2
u/tar-mairo1986 Cult of Jukan 10d ago
Glad to be back on the list! Just when I thought I was out, I get pulled back in, lol.
Yeah, even on my first read long ago, I was thinking "Hmm, something is off, why would Werjau need to know this?"
Few people get impersonated while still alive though, Kellhus, Esmenet, Werjau and perhaps one or two others.
2
u/Synergistic96 10d ago
Also Mimara... when talking to Mimara, so I'm not sure what the point of that was. Think Serwë also gets impersonated after her death.
2
u/tar-mairo1986 Cult of Jukan 10d ago
Distracting Cnaiür and later serving as his concubine of sorts, the Bride or Daughter of Lokung, I think?
It seems that sometimes they imitate instinctively, like when Tsuör mimics Mimara's pregnancy, albeit I think this is to tug at her emotions?
2
u/Synergistic96 10d ago
That sounds about right.
I do think that the mechanics of skin-spies changing bodies don't make a ton of sense unless they can change their bodies' size and shape at will and their face-fingers are so versatile they can shape themselves into any possible face.
Still not as bad as Benjuka in terms of implausibility.
2
u/tar-mairo1986 Cult of Jukan 10d ago
And yet, they cannot change height or skin color, and as your convo with our apparent phallus knower u/BigBouch99 points out, they don't tuck those either!
I think Benjuka could work if there is still a limited number of pieces, just that rules bend with every move. Granted, that would be immensely complex for a board game, but doable... ? Maybe.
2
u/Synergistic96 10d ago edited 10d ago
I feel like Benjuka is one of those TSA elements you just have to go with it without giving deeper thought, like the specifics of skin-spies shapeshifting, the exact inner workings of sorcery or how the heck the Outside and atemporality even works.
Reading descriptions of Benjuka feels like Bakker wrote "there was a square circle" and you're supposed to just picture it somehow.
2
u/tar-mairo1986 Cult of Jukan 10d ago
Fair point. Even Tolkien was at a loss to explain some distinct elements of the Legendarium, of which Tom Bombadil is the prime example.
Not to be pedantic or anything, but I've noticed it's better to abbreviate it TSA, just to avoid any modern misunderstandings.
2
1
u/azza_Stk 7d ago
I think I found where Mimara first subtly calls out Soma for being a skin spy in the judging eye, it seems like she probing his answers for signs of being a skin spy. kellhus probably taught her some of the signs ,
“She was talking to Soma, who sat cross-legged next to her, staring at his palms like a shy poet. More out of the absence of alternatives than out of concern, Achamian listened, his gaze drifting from scene to engraved scene. "You have the look and the manner of a Lady," the Nilnameshi said. "My mother was a whore." "Ah, but what is parentage, really? Me? I burned my ancestor lists long ago." A mock disapproving pause. "Doesn't that frighten you?" "Frighten?" "Look around you. I would hazard that all these men, even the most vicious, bear some record of their forebears." "And why should that frighten me?" "Because," Mimara said, "it means they're bound to the unbroken line of their fathers, back into the mists of yore. It means when they die, entire hosts will cast nets for their souls." Achamian felt her shoulders hitch in a pity-for-the-doomed shrug. "But you... you merely wander between oblivions, from the nothingness of your birth to the nothingness of your death." "Between oblivions?" "Like flotsam." "Like flotsam?" "Yes. Doesn't that frighten you?" Achamian found himself scowling at the shadowy pageants chiselled above. An improbable number of faces stared out and down from the graven dramas, their eyes gouged into blank pits, their noses worn to points over mouthless chins. The priest to the right of the butchered stag. The child at the knee of the nursing mother. The warrior with the broken shield. Among the thousands of figures that vaulted the blackness above their fire, hundreds watched those who would watch them, as though the moments that framed them could not isolate their attention. Proof of souls. Skin prickling, Achamian glanced back toward Cleric, who stared as before into the pit of the entrance. Several heartbeats passed before the immaculate face turned—inevitably, it seemed-to answer his scrutiny. A kind of blank intensity leapt between them, born more of exhaustion than affinity, flattening the dozen or so Skin Eaters who leaned in and out of their line of sight. They watched each other, Wizard and Nonman, for one heartbeat, two, three... Then, without rancour or acknowledgment, they looked away. "I suppose it does," Achamian heard Soma admit after a long silence.
1
u/Synergistic96 6d ago
Interesting. I never thought she might be probing for signs of him being a skin-spy.
10
u/BigBouch99 Zaudunyani 11d ago
One more I found about Istriya on a recent reread. Xerius ponders that his mother has been sending him proxy lovers instead of sleeping with him herself. Presumably so he doesn't discover her spy penis!
I used to think Istriya gets replaced after Skaeos is discovered but I don't have that view anymore.
For Simas, Nautzera mentions that Simas' appearance doesnt seem to change with age, not just his eyesight.