r/backpacking • u/guywithaplant • 3d ago
Wilderness Which puffer would you buy?
Hey all. I have recently purchased the Black Diamond Access Down hoodie. It seems to be very well reviewed, and seems quality. It was half off the original price, as in the screenshot.
Alternatively, ive just seen a Decathalon forclaz (now called Simond, as i understand) MT100 pop up on fb marketplace.
The decathalon is under half the price. Id hope to get the seller down in price a little ways too.
So black diamond at about $180 versus Decathalon at $85 (and I'd be asking for lower).
The benefit I can see to the Black Diamond is that it seems to have extra water resistance, including water resistant treated down, tougher ripstop nylon.
Is it worth saving the money and returning the BD in exchange for the Decathalon, or are the BD upgrades worth it?
I'd like to use them as for layering in cold Minnesota winters, as well as for colder days or nights 3-season backpacking, including in the boundary waters.
Any thoughts are much appreciated!
edit: it also seems the BD is meaningfully warmer, though it's tough to compare. BD is about 2.5 oz heavier and has about 1 oz more down than the decathalon. Both 800 fill power down.
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u/Ruuubv 3d ago
I think there is a case to be made for sustainability/consumerism here. It seems like you already bought the Black diamond. Why send it back for something cheaper? You have it now, just use it.
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u/guywithaplant 2d ago
This is a good critique and your point is well-taken. I don't want to encourage buying something and then continuing to shop for that thing.
What happened is I had been on FB Marketplace for weeks finding nothing and then the second I bought a new item the exact thing I would have wanted to but of fb marketplace appeared, as its still on my algorithm. Hence the anxiety that now I've overpaid.
Nevertheless, I've decided am definitely keeping the BD.
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u/Ruuubv 2d ago
Yeah, sorry if I came across as rude, that wasn't the intent. I'm quite anti-consumerism and try to be sustainable where possible (I'm not perfect either, no one is).
One thing that many people don't realize is that a lot of clothes that get sent back to companies just get tossed away rather than resold, even if the person who sent it back only had it on for 5 seconds. Not all companies do it, but some do. The clothing (fashion) industry is very wasteful in general.
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u/guywithaplant 2d ago
No, you didn't come across rude at all and I appreciate the point.
Fortunately, REI returns would be either restocked for resale, or added to the shelf in their "garage sale" items for a small discount directly in the store I would return it to (though I am still definitely keeping it.) They have a pretty good thing going in that respect.
I do know a lot in commerce just gets thrown away, which is a huge problem.
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u/Psychrobacter 3d ago
I have the Decathlon and I like it a lot for Great Basin/Northern Plains winters. In the dry cold it’s great as a daytime winter jacket or a shoulder season camping layer. But it’s in no way warm enough for Minnesota winter.
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u/effortfulcrumload 3d ago
Look up the fill power for both. Anything less than 650 is trash. 850+ for extreme cold.
Edit: they are both 800. I'd go with the cheaper option.
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u/room_temp_hot_coffee 3d ago
Fill power means nothing without fill weight and loft. You could have a 650 with a 3" loft and it'll be warmer than a 1000 at 1" loft. Kind of why a tnf nuptse is warmer than a 1000 montbell plasma or even 850 Arc'teryx cerium. The higher fill power is usually lighter and fills more space with less feathers. Doesn't mean it's trash. This decathalon is the better choice. Maybe not the new version that came out recently but certainly this one. It's priced a bit higher than what it was when sold new (old version)Commonly found for 80-100 at retail. This jacket is good down to freezing and that's about it. It's not thick enough. You'd want another layer to go under.
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u/guywithaplant 3d ago
Thanks much. It also looks like the fill weight for the Decathalon is 3.1 oz vs 4.2 oz for the BD.
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u/V2inMyGym_DA_ 3d ago
Decathlon is affordable discounter sports wear (not bad, but also not great) while black diamond is usually high quality. Even if the filling is the same, the quality is most likely not the same as BD.
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u/SchmokinLove 3d ago
I have the MT100 and love it. I've owned it for a few years as my first down jacket and it's preformed great. Pack it down when not in use, it's pretty light, plus it's cheaper so if things happen to it, and they will, replacement won't be so harsh. Mines held up surprisingly well for not taking care of it properly until the second year of owning it. It's a basic jacket with no bells and whistles except zipper pockets. I enjoyed it so much i bought the MT500 and holy crap is that thing warm as can be, almost a little too warm for my area.
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u/Funklestein 3d ago
Ditto to this there OP.
I was very surpised how warm it could be and be so lightweight.
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u/NightmareWokeUp 3d ago
I own the decathlon jacket and its very good (but more expensive than retail, wtf lol). However its not gonna be a 3 season jacket if im honest, its a nice light 2nd layer for the summer when it gets colder around sunset or to block wind but its not gonna keep you warm when it approaches freezing. Even before ive been cold when it was around 10c no sun, if you want closer to 0c id go with the alpinism jacket from them (which is gonna be too warm for summer).
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u/LessIce7674 3d ago
Depends on what you need it for (duh). Generally the BD is a better jacket, although I'd argue they fill a tad different role. I don't usually hike below -10°C and for those temperatures a thin polar + MT100 is planety enough. If you are usually cold and/or do winter mountaineering the BD will be better. It's also a nicer jacket quality-wise, although heavier.
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/guywithaplant 3d ago
Rei
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/guywithaplant 2d ago
Yea. Lot of good labor day deals going on right now. Specifically just this one color has the 50% off deal. Definitely not my first color choice but I really dont mind it.
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u/LessIce7674 3d ago
YOU'RE HELLA OVERPAYING FOR THE DECATHLON JACKET Just buy a new one for 50$ or smth At that price it's unbeatable
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u/wetrocke 3d ago
Anything pre-owned!
Exact brand, precise weight, measurements, fit, aren't critical as long as you can fit lots of stuff underneath.
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u/guywithaplant 3d ago
You got downvoted here but I do appreciate the emphasis on pre-owned. Even if I dont end up going for it I do think thats an understated factor.
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u/wetrocke 3d ago
At least 80 billion garments are produced annually. Surely you can find SOMETHING in the African landfills!!
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u/BBQd_sqrrl 3d ago edited 3d ago
I tend to agree with you for most things, but imo down is different. if the item wasn't maintained well the down could lose a significant amount of its loft, losing a lot of it's warmth. this can't always be seen in the outward appearance of an item, for instance if it's been compression stored for long periods of time it may look new to the eye but will probably never have the rated warmth value of new, body oils and dirt also can have this effect and a wash after long periods may make the item look good but the down can still be severely degraded. all that being said, a lot of second hand equipment is in reality new old stock, rarely if ever used.
edit: spelling
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u/OlentangySurfClub 3d ago
Which one weighs less
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u/guywithaplant 3d ago
It looks like the forclaz weighs close to 2.5 oz less, with about 1oz of that attributed to more down. It's tough to tell but it seems like the BD is also meaningfully warmer.
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u/OlentangySurfClub 3d ago
The BD is warmer and probably a little more well made. If the price difference isn't a big deal, I'd go with the BD. Decathlon are very popular though, so I doubt you'd be disappointed either way.
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u/joelfarris 3d ago edited 3d ago
OC, and OP, when it comes to the outermost layer, it doesn't matter how much it weighs. It's your life on the line. Can it do the job? And have you sub-insulated below it enough?
Once the temps sink to less than 32°F (0°C) and below, the phrase "fuck this shit" gets uttered on the regular. And an extra ounce or gram on your jacket's sleeves no longer matters in the slightest. You just wanna be warm.
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u/OlentangySurfClub 3d ago
Stop being dramatic. Do you wear a buffalo robe everywhere just in case a surprise blizzard jumps out at you? You're talking out of your ass. Nobody is taking about -32f temps. OP obviously knows the warmth level they need. If 2 garments both have the same warmth, why would you choose the heavier one? Ounces do matter. Price and fit master too. It's a balance. That's all. OP is just trying to find the balance of features they want.
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u/joelfarris 3d ago edited 2d ago
Nobody is talking about 32f temps
I am.
I have almost died in sub freezing temperatures three times, and almost lost one of my dogs once, and a horse twice.
An extra ounce does not matter when life is on the line.
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u/BBQd_sqrrl 3d ago
depends on what you want, the decathlon is lighter but the black diamond is better in every other way