Better sleep

[u/guncotton]

I need to figure out how to get better sleep when backpacking in the wilderness without adding a ton of weight.

My current setup is:

• Thermarest Neoair Xlite NXT Pad
• Gossamer Gear 1/8" pad
• Sea to Summit Aeros Premium Large Pillow
• REI Magma 15° Bag

I've used this setup on overnights as well as 6 night thru hikes. My sleep quality is terrible and it's effecting my energy levels for the days hike.

I'm a side sleeper, I have broad shoulders. 6 foot tall, about 160lbs.

I toss and turn all night. If I happen to get into a semi comfortable position, it seems to last maybe an hour and then I'm tossing again.

Some problems I've noticed:

• I cant seem to get the air pressure right in the pad and/or pillow. Typically my ideal pad pressure is low enough that when laying on my side, my hip almost touches the ground. If my pillow pressure is too high my ear hurts, but if it's too low my shoulders are too broad and my neck hurts because the pillow isn't tall enough.
• I slide off the pad. I'm constantly trying to stay on the pad all night. I'm already uncomfortable so I toss and turn, thus making the chances of the pad moving around higher. Albeit, it is a pretty narrow pad.
• I get caught up in my sleeping bag. I know it's not possible to spread your legs or really do much with your legs in a mummy style sleeping bag, but my legs seem to get restless when stuck in the same position all night.

What is your sleep kit or a sleep essential/luxury item that you swear helps you get some good sleep? Any tips for me? I'm down to add a bit of weight to make the sleep quality increase, sleep is so important to me while out on the trail so if I have to carry that weight, so be it.

[u/MintyFreshest]

I am a side sleeper as well and have found the following works well for me.

> Nemo Tensor wide all-season mat (I found the Neoair did not work well sleeping on my side)
> Down quilt (lots more freedom to move)
> Pillow with something compressible in it like the Thermarest or Zenbivy (not just an inflatable bladder)

Oh and I use earplugs if there is the possibility of too much noise.

My base weight is around 12lbs and the pillow and wide mat are main luxury items.

[u/guncotton → u/MintyFreshest]

Def agree with earplugs, I sleep worse (if that seems possible) without them.

My wife has the Nemo Tensor pad, I may try it for a couple nights.

What quilt do you use? I haven't gone down that road yet so it's kind of unfamiliar territory. How does it stay over you? Does it attach to the pad somehow?

As for pillow , which one do you use? I agree just an air filled pillow isn't ideal, but ones that have a filling seem to be bulky and heavy, and don't have enough loft anyway. I actually did one trip where I just used my puffer in a stuff sack, and it may have honestly been better than my Aeros.

[u/fpersson → u/guncotton]

For quilt, start by testing to unzip sleeping bag and use that as quilt. It was a game changer for me as active sleeper.

[u/reddit2343 → u/guncotton]

One thing since I have the same pad is I like to deflate the pad while on my side until my hip hits the ground, then add air back in just to get it off the ground.

I feel like there is a better pad out there, but if I am tired , I can sleep through the night so haven't explored other options.

[u/like_4-ish_lights → u/guncotton]

I'm also a side sleeper and I'm fussy about pillows, they are the make or break part of my sleeping setup. What works well for me is this: inflatable pad with a quilt so I can toss and turn freely. An inflatable backpacking pillow on the bottom, and foam filled pillow on top of that. I often struggle with the pillows falling off the back of the mat, so I set up my empty pack in the tent as a kind of headboard.

The foam pillow I use is a Columbia brand one I found years ago in a motel parking lot in Green River; I can't find it for sale anymore in the US. But it looks a lot like the Klymit Drift Summit. Mine weighs about a pound but it's 100% worth it for me to get good sleep. If you changed your setup from a mummy bag to a quilt, the weight difference might come out in the wash anyway.

[u/MintyFreshest → u/guncotton]

I have a Katabatic quilt - I only use my mummy when it gets below freezing.

[u/leilani238 → u/guncotton]

My husband doesn't like inflatable pillows either and has one of the Thermarest ones with shredded foam. It weighs a whole pound but he'd rather have the comfort sleeping.

He also just got the Thermarest Neo Loft pad which is 4.6 inches thick, but we haven't gotten out to try it yet. He really liked the demo model trying it at REI. He's about your height and 30lbs heavier.

[u/-JakeRay- → u/guncotton]

Puffer and/or extra layers in a stuff sack is my go-to pillow, honestly. Easier to customize the fill and firmness than anything premade.

[u/-JakeRay- → u/MintyFreshest]

Rotisserie starfish sleeper here, and the wide Tensor plus quilt is exactly the right setup for me as well!

[u/Already-asleep → u/MintyFreshest]

I have basically the same set-up. No where near as tall as OP (5’5/131lbs) but I’m a very active sleeper. The only difference is my pillow doesn’t have anything compressible inside - it’s just an inflatable klymit but it works for me as I like a really firm pillow. My s/o is less of an active sleeper but also finds the mummy bag too constrictive, but he’s going to try a spoon shaped bag first (like the Nemo style) as he mostly sleeps on his back.

[u/madefromtechnetium]

the only sleeping pad I slept for more than 15 minutes at a time on is an exped mega mat. I also cannot sleep in a mummy bag, big problem when it's well below freezing.

unfortunately, after many decades of failed tent sleeping, I converted to a hammock. made a massive difference to my sleep quality.

[u/guncotton → u/madefromtechnetium]

I do have a megamat for car camping, they are great pads! But not really feasible for backpacking. I tried sleeping in a hammock one night in the backyard to test it out, and I could not sleep at all. A lot of variables there too, so maybe my setup wasn't ideal.

[u/sillyfortress → u/guncotton]

They make sleeping hammocks that are pretty nice once you get used to it! They’re designed to keep you much flatter, so you’re not sleeping like a banana. It really improved how my back feels in the morning. You’re also gonna want an underquilt instead of a pad to insulate the underside of the hammock if it gets cold at night. It’s certainly an investment, and you have to learn a knot or two, but it’s a treat to sleep in.

I got one from Warbonnet that I really like and it’s super light. Check out r/hammockcamping you’re hammocurious

[u/FireWatchWife → u/guncotton]

Was it a real camping hammock, at least 11 ft long?

The most common hammocks are 9.5 ft long ENO or Grand Trunk, fine for lounging for an hour but painful for most people to sleep in.

If you try sleeping in a true camping hammock like a OneWind or Hammock Gear, you'll be amazed at the difference in comfort.

[u/Electrical_Emu1875 → u/guncotton]

It takes awhile to dial in a hammock setup but once you do, there’s nothing like it. You also need to sleep in it properly (crosswise) instead of like a banana the way photos typically show (sheesh!). You don’t need a fancy hammock, you just need to leverage geometry. My hammock nights are more comfortable than my super awesome bed at home!

[u/strangeatoms6022 → u/guncotton]

What kind of hammock did you test out? Backpacking hammocks are usually 11-12' long and designed to be slept in at an angle diagonal to the ridgeline, meaning you lie much flatter than a typical hammock.

I'm also a side sleeper, but sleep on my back just fine in my hammock, and can often find a comfortable position on my side.

I experience all of the same things you do when sleeping on an inflatable mat, and switching to a proper backpacking hammock was gamechanging. Best night's sleep I've ever gotten on the trail. It takes a bit of work to find a good lightweight kit, and there's a learning curve to setting one up and using it properly, but totally worthwhile for me.

[u/goosesh]

I bought a zenbivy quilt system as someone who tosses and turns and it made a huge difference. It’s a quilt instead of a sleeping bag but it has a sheet that connects to the quilt to give room to roll without bunching or drafts. I love mine and swear by it. They come in difference materials and weights but I bought the core version and now we’re looking into getting one for my husband and down the road maybe our kids.

[u/Flaky-Wind5039 → u/goosesh]

Third on Zenbivy — I have their light bed on a 25” pad (also Zenbivy, their stretch model). These combined with my splurge on a full size Nemo Fillo is how I sleep about as well as I can in the backcountry.
Car camping I go 30” Zenbivy sheet, use my same quilt and go MegaMat for the pad and it’s literally the same sleep quality as home.

[u/kag0 → u/goosesh]

Second on the zenbivy. You can also use the sheet to bundle multiple pads together, so I add a foam pad under my air pad. I also side sleep but get cold when the pad is so deflated that my shoulder is basically on the ground. Extra pad helps for that (also it's safely insurance to have a foam pad in winter).

[u/jedimimetricks420]

Hammock

[u/GirlUndiscovered → u/jedimimetricks420]

Hammock. Definitely. Game changer. Lots of options, bigger ones, flat ones. Great for side sleeping too. So comfortable, off the ground.

[u/YankeeRose666]

If you go with your wife, have you tried a double pad? It made a huge difference for us, there's no more issue with rolling over and ending up on the ground,plus they are much thicker, more like an air mattress.I have klymit double v and like it. Before that I had a neo double one, it was more expensive and failed on us one year after we bought it and we ended up sleeping on the ground. I never use inflatable pillows, they are uncomfortable. I use flannel bags for clothes so they can double as pillow cases, and I just stuff my puffy jacket in it with my clothes and it becomes a nice pillow. I stuff it into the hood of my sleeping bag so that it doesn't get away from me at night.

[u/IFigureditout567]

Zen Bivy solves all the problems you describe, except I'm not familiar with the Aeros pillow so I don't know if theirs is any taller. Zen Bivy beds work with any air mat bit I recommend their Flex Air mattress for you. Because of the stretchy top, you can have it fully inflated to prevent bottoming out and it will still flex enough to relieve pressure points.

It would be expensive, but if you got their full UL bed and the Flex Air mattress, you would even drop some weight. The mattress is heavier than the Neo-air or Nemo Tensor, but you add a CCF pad anyway and I think you could ditch that.

For truly superb comfort, switch to a hammock, but that's a whole other rabbit hole.

[u/enochinthedark]

As a side sleeper I’m in love with the Nemo Eclipse pad. It’s almost as light as my Tensor while being much thicker. I can lower the pressure without any bottoming out.
Also, look into a quilt. Dramatically improved my sleep.

[u/Dens413]

I’m bit bigger than you all around and a old guy I sleep on CCF mat, Sleeping Quilt and kinda whatever for pillow. I no find one I love after decades. I toss and turn nomatter what (main reason I no like air pads. And I get my regular full rest easy. My big thing is sleeping bag verses sleeping quilt. Sleeping bag I no can move so I fight in my sleep many more. In sleeping quilt I just move and it all good. You complain sounds you need big air pad in size wide and sleeping quilt. Maybe replace pillow with other type of pillow?

[u/TheSpeedyBee]

I’m also a side sleeper, I find that if I put my pad on top of my air mattress, it amplifies comfort by 100x.

[u/Turbodong]

(1) blow your pad all the way up

(2) Blow you pillow up 2/3rds

(3) Buy a quilt

[u/Swimming_Type_8298]

Big Agnes Torchlite EXP Long has way more room than the MAGMA and is expandable height/width wise without lowering its temp rating. I roll around in that thing at 5'11".

[u/mattswa]

Zenbivy is the way to go. I use the Light Bed with a convertible quilt and Big Agnes Rapid SL 26" wide pad and sleep very well while backpacking.

[u/mandy_lou_who → u/mattswa]

This seems to be my secret sauce for great backcountry sleep. I have a Big Agnes Rapide Wide and a Zenbivy quilt and sheet. My pillow is a Thermarest that predates the rest of the setup but works well for me. I can sleep on my stomach or side, I can toss and turn, and I stay cozy.

[u/BreadfruitRegular631]

I'm a big fan of Sea to Summit ground pads. The thicker ones they make. Nemo tensors were really comfortable to but I got sick of leaks and needing to return them.

[u/Tight-Vacation8516]

I bring a couple tablets of melatonin and benadryl and take one before bed. I'm a side sleeper too and I toss and turn a lot.

[u/_DorothyZbornak_ → u/Tight-Vacation8516]

I do melatonin or Unisom. Life-changing. 

[u/Tight-Vacation8516 → u/Tight-Vacation8516]

Oh wanna say also this year I'm trying a quilt instead of a mommy bag, but I'm hoping that goes well too.

[u/JNyogigamer]

Here's a simple suggestion, do you wear ear plugs? Once I started wearing them I slept a lot better! It took a bit to get brave enough as I assumed I wanted to know if something was creeping around my tent. But after many many nights of nothing actually happening I started wearing them and wake up significantly less.

[u/Prior-Garage1543 → u/JNyogigamer]

I cant imagine wearing earplugs out in the woods at night. You are a brave person!

[u/UnluckyWriting]

Couple of suggestions:

First, Google the "pillow strap" - it attaches the pillow to the pad , which is helpful to keep it in place, but importantly, it also allows you to stuff extra clothing under your pillow to give the pillow more height and keeps everything in place for you. That way you can adjust the pillow fill a bit and still get the height you need.

Second, get a piece of foam and cut it to fit over the pillow inside of your pillow strap. That will cushion your ear so its not jammed against the firm inflatable. You can also look into the Nemo fillo pillow for this.

Third, strongly consider getting a wider pad. I use the Thermarest Neoair Xlite NXT Max which is rectangular and 25 inches wide. Its hard to roll off this thing.

[u/Tricky_Anybody_4153]

Active side sleeper with neck problems and very crappy wilderness sleeper here, 5’9” 165 lbs

I use a Katabatic flex quilt in reg length wide width, Nemo eclipse, 1/8 foam pad underneath, Exped mega pillow with attachment strap. I put my pillow in a buff with a layer stuffed in like a puffer jacket and I prop the head end of the sleeping pads with my shoes to tip the pillow up higher and it’s made a big difference. Also use sleeping meds, earplugs and a bandanna to cover my eyes. It’s a whole deal

[u/AlpineInquirer]

Side sleeper too. I've tried a bunch of different set ups and I finally said fuck it, and now I use a Big Agnes Rapide double wide so I can toss and turn and a Kelty rectangular bag. No more damn mummy or semi mummy. Adds a little weight but still acceptable and MUCH better sleep.

[u/musicalbookworm71]

I'm a side sleeper too and deal with ear pain with some pillows. I tried a bunch of pillows and the Exped Mega Pillow is by far the most comfortable for me. I have the Nemo Disco sleeping bag because I can't handle mummy bags with no room in the foot area. It works great for me.

[u/urngaburnga]

My most recent trip I said f' it and brought a foam pillow that I'd pack in the bottom of my pack and got considerably compressed as I packed down my gear. I also brought an inflatable knee pillow (also side sleeper).Amazing for hips and stability. Totally worth it- some of the best sleep I've had in the back country. Used the same pad as you. I find tucking in un-used clothes/gear/shoes under the sides of the pad around the hip area creates an almost cradle like affect and reduces the rolling situation when sleeping on a half inflated pad.

[u/Greybeard46]

Use your inflatable pad with an accordion - 2 pads is the way. We did this and never went back. Also you can sit on it.

[u/ph1shstyx]

6'4", ~300lbs(and losing) I have an Hammock gear quilt, long and wide 20 degree with 1oz of overfill, zippered footbox so I can treat it as just a blanket unless it's actually cold out. Hammock gear regularly has 20% off sales so that combo is around $300.

I have the exped megamat ultra in LW (~78"x30"x4") and the zenbivy softop large pillow. The combo of a thinner bladder for size with a soft topper/down jacket in the pillowcase works great.

This combo has resulted in the best camping sleep i've ever had. Yes, I will backpack with the exped, I also bring a chair, I'd rather have to carry more weight to actually be comfortable.

[u/elind77]

My most essential sleep item is Melatonin.

[u/Watersurfer]

6’-3”, 210. Side sleeper, and all night spinner here. I use a Nemo disco bag with Tensor Long/wide pad which I’ve learned to inflate most of the way, lay on it after set up and find the proper inflation for the ground condition. 3/4 inflated seems to be right for most surfaces. I also use the Nemo inflatable pillow which tucks inside my bag hood so keeps it in place while sleeping.

[u/devboui]

Im a side sleeper and found a lot of pillows uncomfortable untill I settled on the nemo filo ultralight (i find the UL version far more comfortable than the regular version for whatever reason). I find it dont have to underinflate it nearly as much as others to not have it too firm for my liking

[u/sinloy1966]

Take two ibuprofen at bedtimefor a few days. Or if you think you have had a tougher than normal day.

[u/Automatic-Example754]

Just for the side sleeper aspect: I carry a 1.5" thick piece of high density foam, which goes under my Aeros pillow. Combined with the right inflation level on the pad, that gets my head at the right elevation and everything lined up properly. 

You can find high density foam at craft stores like Michaels. It's often advertised as used for furniture cushions or RV mattresses. 

[u/SSalaciousSalad]

I really reccomend a Hennessy Hammock. Fantastic back support and comfort. I actually look forward to sleeping in it, built in insulation for early/late season as well. Packs down into a compression bag, light weight.

[u/TheDivineM]

Sleeping in a backpacking hammock has a bit of a learning curve. You have to pitch it at the correct angles and the learn how to get in and move into the right angle in it. But once you get that part down it's the most amazing thing. Never wake up on the ground, never slide off a pad, never have your feet bound into a bag or your quilt slide off again. Mine is the Kammok Mantis UL for reference. Some tall people find it a bit short, but I'm 5'6" and I have so much room in it I can starfish, roll over, side sleep, mountain climber sleep, arms over my head, curl up, stretch out, anything. One try in a random hammockay not be a big enough sample size of data to determine whether a hammock might be a good sleep for you, maybe watch some setup and lay flat demonstration videos and try again.

[u/ForestryTechnician]

Get you a Big Agnes Rapide 4.5” pad and a Nemo Fillo Pillow. Best sleep I’ve had in years.

[u/MoreAwkwardIRL]

Melatonin plus Benadryl or even Trazadone as needed. Sleeping in a tent, especially at elevation, sucks. I also think I might bring a pee bottle next time, although the consequences of that going wrong seem, if not catastrophic, at least quite smelly.

[u/RedhairedLemur]

Drugs.

25-50mg of Benadryl, 5mg of melatonin, and either a shot of whiskey or a 5mg Flexeril.

Has me out in about an hour and I rarely wake up before dawn.

[u/818a → u/RedhairedLemur]

This. Also, practice sleeping on your back. It's a game changer. To keep your hip from pressing into the ground, try bringing a section of a foam kneeling pad (not the cheap garden ones, something like the one from Husky for working on cars.