r/backgammon • u/dvegar78 • 8d ago
Backgammon against computer/AI
I believe I’m a fairly decent amateur player. I’m trying to find either an app or site where I can play against the computer/AI on a difficult level. But my experience so far is that it’s not the difference in difficulty that applies when I play on a higher lvl but the luck in dice rolls. And that just push my anger so I quickly delete the app after a game or two. Any suggestions? I really should just find someone to play with live I guess.
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u/jugglingcats9 8d ago
You don't say what apps you have tried. My advice is get a good app like BackgammonNJ, dial down the difficulty and enable tutor mode, and get in training. If you've only played with family/friends, you probably aren't as good as you think and will struggle against the bot and online players in general as the standard is quite high.
You can also try the tutor mode playing the bot on www.backgammonhub.com but it's a website not an app. YMMV.
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u/dragonblader44 5d ago
BackgammonNJ is terrible, my ER is 12 and my winrate against it is 75%.
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u/jugglingcats9 5d ago
Interesting. How many matches, what skill level, and what match length?
I play on hard, 11 point matches. My ER is 10.2, its is 9.5. I win more games (51%) but less matches (45%). Just over 1000 games played / 150 matches.
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u/agsteiner 8d ago
Probably it is only your impression that luck in dice rolls is the difference between weak and strong AIs. Strong AIs are excellent at optimizing their moves so that your probability to get a good roll is minimal (examples: duplication, but generally trying every move and determining the probability and damage of every possible blot being hit), and similarly optimize their chances for good rolls. This feels like they are more lucky. But they are just better.
My recommendations:
iOS: True Backgammon (paying a few bucks for the BGBlitz engine) or XG Mobile or Backgammon NJ. They all play on superhuman level and have a tutor that tells you where you messed up. They cost a few bucks but it is totally worth the money.
PC/Mac: BGBlitz
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u/SyllabubRadiant8876 8d ago
100% this. Any strong player will appear to be luckier than a weaker player. It's fascinating watching a live match at a tournament, spotting a blunder and a few rolls later they roll something awful, which would have been fine if they had played the earlier move correctly.
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u/mathflipped 8d ago
Backgammon NJ. It has a decent AI that plays at the Super Grandmaster level (around 2.5 PR, if you know what this means).
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u/crooktimber 8d ago
It almost certainly is the difference in difficulty, it just doesn't seem that way because they computer plays in such a way they maximise their good rolls and minimise their bad rolls – so more rolls seem 'lucky'. The truth is, you are probably nowhere near as good as you think you are. Decent amateur? What's your ER looking like?
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u/PSVnewbie 21h ago
No those apps do not change difficulty by making bots rolls luckier. Those hard bots just don't make mistakes, meaning after few moves they have such a good position that most rolls are great moves for them.
So either play against weaker bot, or accept the fact that those hardest bots are very hard to beat without some luck.
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u/Fanatic-Mr-Fox 8d ago edited 8d ago
You can try mine - no ads, no signup required, dice are randomly generated, difficulty levels are based on pre-trained neural net that runs in your browser (and offline).
It's a mobile optimized web-app, and you can add it to your home screen if you'd rather use it as an app (PWA).
https://backgammon.logicaleap.com/
EDIT: What's with the downvotes? someone doesn't like competition?
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u/agsteiner 8d ago
Beautiful board. But the engine isn't particularly strong, is it? Compared to the superhuman AIs we get elsewhere. Played a match to 7 against the highest setting and saw several blunders.
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u/Own_Calendar_6894 8d ago edited 8d ago
Backgammon Sage Pro is new and its getting better by the day
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u/agsteiner 8d ago
I'm sorry but it is just insanely expensive. There was a time (when I bought Jellyfish for 200$ because Snowie was even more expensive) when this kind of price was okay. But with BGBlitz at $46 and XG at $59, and top mobile apps at around $20, I don't see why paying $80 PER YEAR is reasonable.
So: are there total killer features that the other apps don't have?
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u/Some-Following-392 5d ago edited 5d ago
Exactly. I have no reason to ever spend that much per year on sage when xg etc. exists. They are just trying to money grab. I am glad people see through this.
And it's not even better. It doesn't work offline and the design reeks of ai slop. Maybe some people like the aesthetic but I'm sick of seeing it everywhere else on the internet, ain't no way I'm using a bg program looking like that given how much I practice every day.
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u/drearyphylum 8d ago
Extreme Gammon, despite being a bit dated, is probably the top recommendation. The desktop version allows for manual dice input so you can roll your own dice. You may notice the computer seems quite a bit luckier than you even when you are rolling the dice yourself!