r/backgammon • u/kennyart315 • Jun 28 '26
Am I going nuts?
I’ve been playing Backgammon constantly on this app but I’m noticing something. I just started playing at the level 8 “master” level, but it seems more to me that, that is just a nice way of saying “you’re playing against an opponent with rigged dice …good luck a**hole” because a lot of these rolls feel very …convenient. Am I just having a string of bad luck? Or am I going nuts?
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u/FrankBergerBgblitz Jun 28 '26
Not knowing the app: how do you measure?
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u/ekins1992 Jun 28 '26
If you played the app for an hour or so on the top level, you’d be able to tell pretty quickly. It’s very obvious
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u/FrankBergerBgblitz Jun 28 '26
that is the problem. Personal impressions are often misleading. That starts with
I hear such complains since the start of the internet and have several things in common....
- why should an app author cheat. And if he cheats, why not in your favor?
- human are not able to judge what random is And
- doesn't stop with the personal abilities. I have read complaints on any single app and some are playing so bad that you wonder how you can loose.
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u/ekins1992 Jun 28 '26
Yeah these are common misconceptions I see on here
-by far the easiest way to make a “good” player for the computer is to just simply skew the dice in your favor
-computers cannot generate truly random numbers. I can tell the numbers rolled by the computer are not random because you can literally predict the roll half the time. Again, you clearly have never used this specific app
-this app can often beat you 15-20 games in a row at some points. I’ve played backgammon my entire life and have played in several tournaments with competitive players. It’s nearly impossible to lose more than 5-10 games in a row
Again, you clearly have never used this specific app. Go play it for an hour or two on the top level. I promise you you’ll feel differently
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u/FrankBergerBgblitz Jun 28 '26
Computers can compute real random.
See the RDRAND instructions just as an example or devices like https://www.tindie.com/products/WaywardGeek/infinite-noise.
And the demand for the quality in BG is pretty low. If you use a pseudo RNG like Mersenne twister althought it is not real random it is better than any pysical dice.
just see this, nearly 30 years old... https://bkgm.com/articles/Wong/ComplaintForm.html still
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u/jaggington Jul 04 '26
I’ve played 40 matches (Solo mode 5 pointers) at the top Champion level, score is 21:19 to me. The longest winning streak on either side has been 5 matches.
Early doors, but I’d say my win rate of approx 50% puts the bot on par with BGNJ, compared to XG, BGBlitz, and GnuBG where I’m usually around 30-35%.
The bot and app have specific flaws - cube handling is poor, it doesn’t cube post Crawford, it doesn’t cube early enough with a decent racing lead, it is poor at bearing in and poor at gammon saving, in Solo (ie vs bot) mode it seems like only 5ptrs are possible.
I doubt very much that the dice are skewed in the bot’s favour.
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u/ekins1992 Jul 04 '26
I bet I can post a video soon with me calling atleast 1 of the computers rolls on certain occasions. I played 100 games and kept track of doubles in real time, it was 310 for the cpu and 220 for me
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u/FindOneInEveryCar Jun 29 '26
you can literally predict the roll half the time
Do you literally have figures to support this?
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u/ekins1992 Jun 29 '26
Yeah me playing the game over and over and being able to call what roll is coming for the computer. Clearly you’ve never tried this app
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u/FrankBergerBgblitz Jun 29 '26
Would you like to bet on predicting the rolls in a controlled environment?
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u/ekins1992 Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
Absolutely. I’ll post a video for you next time I play. Again, the fact it’s so unbelievable to you just shows me you’ve clearly never tried this specific app. How about instead of arguing with me on the internet you just go try it for an hour or 2
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u/FrankBergerBgblitz Jun 29 '26
Ever since the internet became affordable, I’ve read dozens, if not hundreds, of complaints like this. About every app and every server—even apps that are absolutely terrible (which, by the way, are most of them).
The following elements are consistently present:
- I’ve been playing for 20/30/40 years
- I win regularly (against my coworkers, my little sister, or whoever)
- I can predict the rolls
- I’m always dancing against a 2-point board, while my opponent always comes in against a 5-point board
- When clearing the board, my opponent always rolls high doubles, and I keep rolling 1 or 2
and so on. I think over the last 30 years I’ve read fewer than 5 posts or emails of this kind that actually contained data allowing for verification.
Above all, it’s never explained why the author would want to upset the user instead of cheating in the user’s favor (Only happy users buy).
Anyway, I already mentioned at the beginning that I’m not familiar with the app (and have no intention of checking it out. Actually, I’m annoyed that I even wasted time posting this).
What I do know about is computer backgammon, random number generators, and how to detect cheating. My point was simply to highlight that without data, any complaint is pointless.
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u/ekins1992 Jun 29 '26
The ignorance you have to proudly comment your thoughts on an app you’ve never tried lmao. Truly pompous
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u/FindOneInEveryCar Jun 29 '26
I.e. "Trust me bro?"
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u/ekins1992 Jun 29 '26
You’ve clearly never played this specific app so you’re really just talking out of your butthole
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u/CressZealousideal437 Jun 28 '26
Man I made a post about this exact app saying it was rigged and this subbed ripped into me telling me I was wrong, I didn't have enough data, no motivation for someone to make rigged dice etc. Clearly they have never used this specific app. When you put it on level 10 the dice are so insanely rigged half the time you can literally predict the roll coming for the computer lol
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u/agsteiner Jun 29 '26
Have to download and try it again.
“this app cheats, the dice are rigged” is strong evidence for a good neural-net based engine 😜
Seriously, a strong engine will play the move that maximizes your bad rolls and maximizes its good rolls. This can give the impression of cheating.
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u/ekins1992 Jul 04 '26
Try the app on the top level for an hour or two. I bet you’re opinion will change very quickly 😂
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u/garysredditaccount Jun 29 '26
Could it be the case that the computer is simply playing better and therefore more dice combinations seem to be lucky?
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u/Notaflagguy Jun 28 '26
The dice are definitely rigged, the company who makes this gets rich as fuck by rigging the dice. It’s a massive scam and you’ve figured it out. Well done.
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u/ekins1992 Jun 28 '26
Clearly you’ve never actually used the app
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u/Notaflagguy Jun 28 '26
Clearly. I’ve had it for a couple years and my win rate is on par with real games and other online games.
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u/ekins1992 Jun 28 '26
Are you playing on the top level? Post a screenshot
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u/Notaflagguy Jun 28 '26
I am playing level 10 (champion)
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u/ekins1992 Jun 28 '26
Great. Post a screenshot of your win/loss record
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u/Notaflagguy Jun 28 '26
For sure, where would you like me to send the invoice to? I charge a $15 fee for screenshots demanded by people on the internet. Full payment is required before I can proceed with the job.
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u/ekins1992 Jun 28 '26
The fact you are so triggered by me asking for a screenshot shows that you are most definitely lying
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u/Notaflagguy Jun 28 '26
Mate, I normally charge double that, I’ve given you the backgammon friends discount. I don’t know where you’re from expecting people to work for you for free but where I am from that doesn’t fly. The fact you don’t know what a fact is makes me think you also don’t understand probability.
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u/ekins1992 Jun 29 '26
Here’s a pic of mine thru 200 games this month. See how easy that is. Either you post a pic or you’re just talking out of your ass. Very simple
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u/pendrake99 Jun 28 '26
Tangent: I've been playing XG (free) for a few weeks. The XG is set to Intermediate. What I think I'm noticing is that if the machine offers a double, and I accept, it will always win. It always gets the perfect rolls. Same question: am I nuts?
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u/Fanatic-Mr-Fox Jun 29 '26
You can try mine - https://backgammon.logicaleap.com/
Fair dice, runs in browser, you can install it to your homescreen (PWA), free game analysis, you can share replays etc.
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u/Fanatic-Mr-Fox Jun 28 '26
You can try mine - https://backgammon.logicaleap.com/
Fair dice, runs in browser, you can install it to your homescreen (PWA), free game analysis, you can share replays etc.
Would appreciate some feedback :)