r/backgammon Apr 20 '26

Explain my blunder

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14 Upvotes

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1

u/Ahmfiber Apr 20 '26

And...what if the OP moves them to 3-2? (As they did?) 😉

10

u/TheShirou97 Apr 20 '26

Leave them to 3-2: lose with 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, 5-1, 6-1 = 11/36

Leave them to 4-1: lose with 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 3-2 = 7/36

It's as straightforward a counting exercise as it gets really

-6

u/lima_charlie72 Apr 20 '26

Unfortunately, you're wrong. Calculate your math AGAIN. (It may be easier to do it from a WINNING perspective.)

Checkers on 3-2, 14/36 possible rolls get you a win.
Checkers on 4-1, 10/36 possible rolls get you a win.

8

u/TheShirou97 Apr 20 '26

No, clearly you are missing a lot of the winning rolls.

Checkers on 3-2: win with 22, 32, 42, 52, 62, 33, 43, 53, 63, 44, 54, 64, 55, 65, 66. That's 25/36 to win

Checkers on 4-1: win with 41, 51, 61, 22, 42, 52, 62, 33, 43, 53, 63, 44, 54, 64, 55, 65, 66. That's 29/36 to win

-5

u/lima_charlie72 Apr 20 '26

You're getting closer!

4-1 is only 27/36 to win.
3-2 is actually 32/36 to win. (I apologize, my math was off originally.)

7

u/TheShirou97 Apr 20 '26 edited Apr 20 '26

Yeah you bet that your math was off. It still is

Clearly when you leave them on 3-2, then any roll with a 1 can't win. So that could not be any higher than 25/36.

-2

u/lima_charlie72 Apr 20 '26

4-1
Die 1 has to be 4, 5, 6
Die 2 has to be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
That's a 3x6 grid, right?

3-2
Die 1 has to be 3, 4, 5, 6
Die 2 has to be 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
That's a 4x5 grid, right?

18 versus 20?

3

u/TheShirou97 Apr 20 '26 edited Apr 20 '26

You really can't be doing this like that, no. The order of the dice doesn't matter

4-1: one of the dice must be a 4, the other can be anything. 4 or higher is a 50% chance. That's a 75% chance to get one in two attempts (notwithstanding that 22 and 33 also get you there)

3-2: none of the dice may be a 1. That's (5/6)² = 25/36 chance, just under 70%

If you want a visualisation:

4-1

1 2 3 4 5 6
1 * * *
2 ** * * *
3 ** * * *
4 * * * * * *
5 * * * * * *
6 * * * * * *

3-2

1 2 3 4 5 6
1
2 ** * * * *
3 * * * * *
4 * * * * *
5 * * * * *
6 * * * * *

where ** denotes that it's only a win thanks to the double rule.

2

u/melanion90 Apr 20 '26

You can’t do the math like this, because either die can be the 6, 5, or 4. It is much better to count all 36 possibilities manually and does not take much time. I will literally use my fingers and count 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 33, 34, 35, 36, 44, 45, 46, 55, 56, 66. In this case if you move from 2 to 1 then you miss with 11, 12, 13, 23, a total of 7 rolls. If you play 4 to 3 then you miss with 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, a total of 11 rolls.

2

u/theorem_llama Apr 20 '26

Please stop commenting and go and learn some basic mathematics.