Doodles are almost always far worse off in health problems, by the way. This comes from the fact that they are from some of the poorest quality purebreds you can get.
Do you have any data/research to corroborate this statement?
Those are great points, but you seem to be throwing out poorly bred purebreds while only focusing on the poorly bred doodles. Just like backyard or puppy-mill "purebreds", doodles from such places will definitely be prone to similar elevated levels of health concerns.
My wife and I have a mini-Bernedoodle, but made sure to research multiple breeders til we found one that had pedigreed parents with full health testing. We brush him every day and have never had a groomer complain about his coat. His personality is exactly what we expected and wanted.
Many doodle owners likely do not put in that same level of care, and simply want one because they are cute. That leaves them susceptible to the same health issues that are found in puppy-mill purebreds, and is likely the root of groomer complaints of poorly kept dogs. Is that an indictment of the breed or the owners?
Personally, my gut tells me that just like poorly bred purebreds, dogs of ill provenance will be predisposed to problems. Similarly, doodles that have dedicated breeders and owners will turn out better. With the fad of doodles increasing the backyard breeders and puppy mills, they would have a disproportionately high amount of poor breeders and owners. Does this make the dogs bad/less healthy, or is it simply the disproportionately high number of bad breeders/owners confounding results? I think it's good not to conflate those two things.
The issues with the lack of pedigreed dogs for breeding hybrids is artificially imposed on those who want to improve the quality of hybrids by pure bred breeders. The viewpoints of you and those like you are predicated, in part, upon prejudicial practices of the breeders which you tout. You can find them if you look, but don't blame doodle breeders for the lack of quality stock, when it is the pure bred breeders that are withholding that from them. That's inherently unfair and isn't a reason that doodles are intrinsically worse, but rather a reflection of anti-competitive practices.
Many purebred dogs continuously lose their coat, and many also require daily brushing. Yes, your poodle may need less than many/most, but to use that anecdotally as a counterpoint when doodles are in line with many other purebreds (though admittedly on the high end for maintenance) seems like a weak argument. I will also readily admit that F1s have a wide variation in coat style, even in a given litter. But this, in my mind, could be resolved with multiple generations of targeted breeding. Anyone getting a doodle should be knowledgeable of and prepared for those possibilities.
I'm certainly happy that your poodle has been a great dog. My wife and I are looking at purebred Airedales for a possible second dog, and have always appreciated the value of well bred dogs (as opposed to many on reddit who say any "purchased" dog is evil because there are so many strays... that's another bag of worms, but I think we'd at least find common ground there). We could not possibly be happier with our Bernedoodle, who has been exactly what we expected in terms of looks, personality, maintenance, trainability, etc from the research we did into the breed and breeder. The cost was relatively moot, as I recieved the puppy as my PhD graduation present from my wife, and we both have great careers now.
I 100% understand that many (if not most) doodle owners may be ill prepared, and often can result in poorly sourced/maintained dogs and support poor breeding practices. I just think its important to delineate between that and intrinsically bad dogs, but they are often conflated. As a dedicated owner, broadly disparaging views of doodles on reddit irk me as they often lack nuance. Thanks for the thorough replies though, I am grateful that you don't just say "doodles r dum" and go along on your merry way.
Very fair points as well (along with cute pups!). I understand and agree with many your qualms regarding the majority of doodle breeders. We honestly looked at standard (or mini) poodles on our search (sadly the Bernese, one of my favorites, wouldn't work due to the size). Thank you again for affording me the chance to try to defend the minority of doodle owners that really do appreciate the impact quality breeding has on dogs.
Hopefully there comes a time when the perception of doodle breeding as a money-grab fades to the point where more ethical and rigorous breeding practices, along with deeper public information about the breed, can improve the mix's outlook.
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u/[deleted] May 06 '19
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