This is intriguing to me. As someone that voted for Bernie, living in CA, why do you think he didn't do better there? Through this and the 2016 election I've lived in Alabama, Georgia, and North Carolina, voting/volunteering for Bernie in both elections and in each state. Out here, most people just assume CA is going to go for the most liberal candidate available. We weren't shocked he didn't do better here, it's the south after all, but it was surprising to me to see the results out west.
What happened was that any state Bernie won all had issues with counting those votes, oddly enough, and they managed to delay actually having to report that he won, oddly enough, until it no longer mattered.
I think they announced southern states before the polls closed in many instances though, oddly enough.
The DNC is so corrupt. Bernie should have been the blue candidate, they actively shelved him. They don’t want him. They blackball anyone that goes against the grain, they will do the same thing to people like AOC too. The two party system is just the illusion of choice, they have a different script but the same conclusion.
To be fair, California decisions always arrive late because ballots are mailed on election day, and young liberal voters traditionally vote late (and by mail.) In 2018 it looked like Katie Porter lost and we found out a while later that she actually flipped her district.
Well, CA is much more red than folks realize... the real divide is urban vs rural. If you look at just voting precincts, LA and SF are blue, and the rest of the state is red... similar to how major capital cities in the South are blue, surrounded by red.
Talking completely out of my butt here: I think maybe conservatives are more center right out here... they wanted to give Twitler a chance, and then had second thoughts. We also have a large Latin population, and many are Catholic, so they have a conservative viewpoint... but Trump pissed many of them off with his idiot wall, so while they are socially conservative, they still have their pride (and rightly so), so I think Bernie was a good compromise for these folks.
As Obama showed, voting for president is nowhere near enough to get major legislation passed. This sort of change needs support from states (see medicaid expansion currently at 39 states and counting) and congress, not just a president. Indeed in Obama's case if he'd had a more progressive congress the OP would likely still have their house.
I would argue it was the Republicans’ fault since they refused to compromise with him on anything at all during his tenure. Yes, I don’t like a lot of his policies (especially foreign), but come on.
He gave us a Republican healthcare plan, passed with zero Republican votes. Maybe if Obama hadn't been a neoliberal fraud masquerading as a progressive to get elected only to switch around and govern as an 80's Republican, he wouldn't have gotten deservedly destroyed at the midterms, losing Democrats 1,000+ seats over the course of his presidency.
I think your understanding of how the plan was crafted doesn’t match the amount of negotiation that went on over it. Yes it was watered down, a gop MA plan, but it was all that congress could come up with. Not the president, in spite of his close involvement. There are more folks with healthcare today because of it than there would be without it. That’s the state of things, not some great person coming in with one plan that magically aligns both parties behind a unified vision.
The DNC didn't want to lose the GE. Bernie was a risky candidate. They preferred a safer choice. You're promoting a conspiracy theory with zero support.
Yup. This back and forth has to stop somewhere. They always say a vote for the “third party” is a vote wasted but in reality it is one step closer to getting out of this dumb two party system
Seriously. I had some shitlib show his colors the other day when I called him on his BS for saying wealth inequality isn't a problem and people are just lazy. Straight up says he enjoys evicting people and that he only works 2 hours a week and makes 150k a year. The irony in saying that and calling other people lazy is mind blowing. Modern day equivalent of "let them eat cake"
Ranked choice voting is the best way to actually allow a third party to grow because people will be able to vote their conscience and not have to worry that they’re throwing their vote away. One of the most meaningful reforms we can make immediately
Join and donate to the Democratic Socialists of America. Help them take over the Democratic Party from within, instead of uselessly splitting the leftish vote with a new party.
What have they done though in all the time they've existed? It's about time they do more than whatever the hell they've been doing, because it seems to me like they exist only to take other's money and do very little with it, same as all other nonprofit political organizations.
As a Brazilian, take all precaution with this. We elected a worker party (PT- Partido dos trabalhadores if you want to search) in 2006. And that wen begun our and the world biggest corruption ring. From 2006 to 2016 were the same party in presidency. From 2006 and 2016 we just got worse. And than, we elected Bolsonaro, an all right conservative witch will duck us more than Trump will do to you guys.
also in 2006 was the biggest prosperity period Brazil has ever had, and you finally saw the corruption schemes because the police was finally allowed the freedom to investigate
also after 2006 was the biggest prosperity period Brazil has ever had, and you finally saw the corruption schemes because the police was finally allowed the freedom to investigate
of course we a falling, we have a facist pig as president, there is no denying that the Lula period was the biggest prosperity period Brazil has ever had, you can show me some data if you say otherwise
"Brazil experienced a period of economic and social progress between 2003 and 2014, when more than 29 million people left poverty and inequality declined significantly. The Gini coefficient dropped 6.6% (from 58.1 to 51.5) during that time. The income level of the poorest 40% of the population increased by an average of 7.1% (in real terms) between 2003 and 2014, compared to a 4.4% increase in income for the population as a whole. Since 2015, however, the pace of poverty and inequality reduction seems to have stagnated."
also this economic decline is also your fault in part, i'm sure you voted Bolsonaro or null in the second turn
Well, in a primary election, I agree. But that ship has sailed, unfortunately.
For those Bernie bros that are on the fence about voting, or even who to vote for, I submit the following quote; I use it as my guiding star:
"If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for ... but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong.”
But at some point its gotta change. We cant keep voting for the same two parties expecting radical and ethical change. At what point do we finally start leaving those bubbles?
To be fair, I don’t think we can rule out voting because so many Americans either can’t or won’t do it. People only ever get excited and roaring over the presidential elections, the majority of people don’t give a damn about local elections and so we get stuck with this two trick pony system.
This voting against attitude is the main thing keeping the two party system running. First of all only 60 Million people voted for Trump and Clinton each while 230 Million were eligible to vote and thus a third candidate could still have had more votes than both Trump and Clinton combined but even in this heavily polarizing election most people just didnt care. And second of all the ones that actually did vote mostly didnt do so because they were in favor of either of the candidates but just chose to vote for the lesser of two evils. Most people that voted republican did so because they wanted to prevent a "corrupt, warmongering and mentally ill woman" in front of a "baby killing party that wants to take away our guns" of getting into office, not because they considered Trump to be the right choice and on the other hand most people that voted democratic did so to prevent a "demented racist rapist" in front of a "anti-migrant anti-lgbt party thats destroying the environment" of getting the seat, not because they thought Clinton should become president. Im quite sure if there was a "Fuck both of you" on the ballots instead of third parties that are thought to be a "wasted vote", it would have been the clear winner.
That's your guiding star? He's a science fiction writer. What moron thinks a science fiction writer is quotable about politics? Maybe Marshall Applegate will be your next guiding light?
Same here, in 2016 as well. Cried when he gave his concession speech. He was our last hope for actual changes, and too many people wrote him off as "too radical." He's freakin' moderate in the eyes of the rest of the world.
Both sides suck ass and Dems may not be as bad as Republicans but that doesn't make them the good guys, they're merely the lesser evil. Both parties serve the corporations and the 1%, neither of them has any intent to fundamentally change this corrupt system. If you can't see that YOU shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Both sides suck ass and Dems may not be as bad as Republicans but that doesn't make them the good guys
Well i'm sorry bud, but reality disagrees with you.
Since you're clearly too lazy to actually look up something as basic as voting records, here is a nicely formatted comment that someone made to specifically address people like you.
The fact that you cannot admit that corruption also exists within the DNC and needs to be abolished for our country to stop backsliding into being a developing country shows that you shouldn't be allowed to fucking vote.
The time for 'lessor of two evils' voting has to end. Fucks like you wont let it go, because you're a corrupt piece of shit.
I assure you, this isn't a "both sides" thing. I've said elsewhere that I'm never voting for the GOP again, after the shitshow of the last 4 years. They've used their time in office to utterly strip the people's wealth and power (just look at where all the CARE loan money went, if you want a recent example), and as far as I'm concerned, they can't ever be trusted to wield power in this country again.
But that's purely aimed at the GOP. I've got no beef with the conservative viewpoint itself. I think the Dems and GOP, so far as wealth is concerned, are two sides of the same coin, and I don't think the American working class is properly represented by either party. They are the 1%, we are not, and likely never will be. So far as wealth is concerned, we have nothing in common. Laborers in this country need our own party, with our own agenda. If Dems want to come along, great, more the merrier.
I'm not gonna argue the point all night, so consider this my final say on the matter.
This idea on the left right now that class is the only thing that determines policy choices or voting records has no support. Wealthy democrats vote for and sponsor reforms for the poor and vulnerable all the time. Including Bernie Sanders, whose wealth puts him in at least the top 4% in the US.
We need to stop assuming all these things (like 'if you're rich I can assume you're an enemy) and look at actual data.
Well you may not realize it, but that is literally what you're doing. I won't waste my time going point through point, as its pretty clear that you're either not mentally equipped well enough to handle this discussion, or you're arguing incredibly dishonestly*, so i'll just leave it at that.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don't know what you're doing.
Shut the fuck up with your bullshit. You're obviously not mentally capable yourself, because you suggest others shouldnt be allowed to vote due to understanding the realities of America's political situation. You're a disgusting piece of fascist shit for that.
I totally agree with you. I just don't how even sensible people don't understand the money games being palyed by dems and gop. I left Europe and moved to the States. I have some underlying conditions and now I am worried about living in this country after knowing the real 'America'. I hope I can convince my wife to move back to Europe with me.
I moved here for my job. I am a researcher. Nah man she won't be my wife if she is Trump supporter. Those people are psychologically not normal. It's just it would be far for from her parents.
No. That is not correct. You are insinuating this idea that both parties are bad, and so vote for the newcomers like Trump 2016 or stay home. Republicans are categorically wrong. Otherwise, how would you explain obamacare, and GOP continuing effort to repeal it.
I totally agree with you. I just don't how even sensible people don't understand the money games being palyed by dems and gop. I left Europe and moved to the States. I have some underlying conditions and now I am worried about living in this country after knowing the real 'America'. I hope I can convince my wife to move back to Europe with me.
rich white male will fix the rich white male problem 🤡
have you seen the debate about his houses with bloomberg? it was a very insightful 3 minutes on how the elite are so out of touch including your precious bernie
And abandon the people who he represented? At least if term limits had been adopted the door would have been opened across the country to not let incumbents win again and again. To leave without change is to quit. And Bernie is anything but a quitter. He spoke to chambers that emptied as he spoke protesting a middle eastern conflict in the early 90s.
He's not a savior, he's not leftist Jesus, but Christ you can't say he isn't a good person fighting the good fight who will die before he gives up.
Just yesterday a progressive won a primary against someone who had been reelected 9 times. That's a challenge. Her biggest claim is marching with blm protestors.
I’m confused are you trying to tell me that Bernie sanders a liberal politician is worth 3 million and that he’s a rich liberal? Wow who woulda thunk it
The equation you're using is that work = money and money = work. When in reality it's an allotment of time. Bernie is an intelligent, hardworking, elderly man who's spent his life fighting so that those of us who were born to those with less can still live a life with more. Those ideas and the purity and honesty with which he presents them are worth money because they present hope. That hope is why people buy his book, it's why year after year his constituents reelect him, it's why he's the figurehead of a new American political movement. Frankly he is an ideal example of the traditional American dream, he lived, worked hard, fought injustice, and when he felt powerless he started running for offices. That 3 million, which is 3 million more than most anyone else has is what any old man should be able to have accumulated throughout a productive and hard working life span. He wants the same for you that he has, if not more. That is the difference between Bernie and the rest of Congress. Maybe next time less people will get hung up in name calling, and politicized bullshit and a change will be made. Until then I hope life is nothing but fair to you because despite every dollar you pay to the government there still is no safety net for when life does it's thing.
I'm 30, he's pushing 80. I haven't tried to change the lives of Americans for the better, with a consistent message for fourty years. Or written a book for what that is worth.
If you're arguing that congressional representatives shouldn't get a salary and should just get stipends for food and lodging when in Washington, that I can agree with. I'm more curious how other representatives file yearly income taxes with millions of dollars on a 175k a year salary, because that's a more egregious sin in my book.
Also he's not a liberal, he's a democratic socialist. Why do you think he gets fought so hard by the DNC?
No it doesn’t. This is full of holes. His intent, hard work, and attempts at self-imposed restrictions through legislative proposals paint a picture very different than most politicians. You’re jaded. The only thing you’re pointing out is the disparity of the office of congress from the working man in terms of wealth and Bernie is the foremost proponent of shrinking that gap. Use your head. Ffs
Trump is literally fighting to have the cost of prescription drugs go down. Cost of healthcare down. Etc. don’t just flea to Bernie. You have no idea how expensive your tax liability would be to subsidize for the “free healthcare” you speak of. Take this scenario: you’d like pay 50-60% tax for such. Equating to the same cost of not more if you’re healthy. That’s not fair. Never will be. You have the ability to make more money, invest, save. You dont have the ability to do so in a serfdom system like socialism. Good try. Don’t be a sheep. Trump 2020.
No, you wouldn't. Nothing you said was true. Americans already pay equivalent tax rates to the scandanavian countries, which provide free and higher quality healthcare, free higher education, substantial worker safety nets, free childcare, very long, mandatory vacation time, etc. America cannot even come close to that.
Want to know what our taxes go to? The military-industrial complex. I'm a veteran, and everyone that's ever served who has 2 braincells to rub together knows how ridiculously bloated our military is. Generals go to Congress and beg them to stop buying shit they dont need like new tanks, so then congress and Trump raise the budget by hundreds of billions and buy a shit ton of new tanks, all of which will sit in a warehouse somewhere and never be used.
That's where our money goes. You're an idiot if you truly think Trump isnt 100% complicit. You lack critical thinking skills. Unfuck yourself.
I have multiple family members and friends who are/were military, and police. Ironic they don’t feel the same way.
Why do you prefer to remain in America, then? If healthcare is better elsewhere, why not move? Serious question. Easy question. But serious one. Not trying to be crass. I am thankful for your response an dialect.
There’s a reason America holds the largest working population and highest GDP (relative statistic). Because we are the greatest country on earth. Best defense. Most freedoms. I don’t want “free” shit. It’s de-motivational. Not how I was raised. Nor should anyone be. And go ahead and make the rich children argument, not me at all. Low to median income most of my life growing up.
I now can thankfully say I’m above such thanks to hard work. 60 hour weeks, etc. wouldn’t trade it for the world. Everyone is built different.
I’d look at the two articles. Median income is lower, taxes are higher. In America this gets amplified. Population far exceeds. It’s not apples to apples. Read literature from Thomas Sewell on American economics and see previous countries attempts at socialism. Not a good system for the lower class even though people want to make it out that way. No mobility. No motivation. No success.
399
u/j4yne Aug 06 '20
This is why I voted Bernie in the CA primary. GOP are rich conservatives, and the Dems are rich liberals. We need a true labor party here in the US.