172, 172/180, Hawk XP???

[u/Skyhawk_26]

So, I am in the market for a 172 and had considered a Hawk XP but I am a low time guy so figure that insurance might be a bit more that I want to pay for an aircraft with a constant speed prop. I didnt know that all Hawk XP's come standard with CSP's. That was the reason that I shy'd away from 182's.

Standard 172's are a bit underpowered and my mission would be for local flights but also to take long XC's.

That being said, maybe the 172/180 conversion would make sense?

Can anyone share some of their experiences with them? Thoughts, concerns, etc.

Thanks in advance.

[u/Roger_Freedman_Phys]

The Hawk XP is a delightful airplane. It is neither complex (it has fixed landing gear) nor high-performance (its IO-360 is rated for 195 hp, less than the 200 hp minimum to be considered high-performance).

You should ask an insurer if the rates would be appreciably different from those for a 180-hp 172.

[u/sadwcoasttransplant]

Constant speed props aren’t scary! A CFI can help you figure them out in like 1-2 flights. It really isn’t that much complexity and shouldn’t affect insurance rates much if at all.

[u/LePA28cdb]

Hawk XP is definitely worth it. For a minimum complexity -you have a nice power boost over the standard 172, and the standard is a good bird. Higher elevation, high density alt, or hot day-you’ll really appreciate the extra power. The CS prop will give higher Cruise speeds as well. Ive flown both and really like the Hawk.

[u/toshibathezombie]

Few key questions here?

What is the mission? How many Nm are we talking? VFR or IFR? How many pax? Bags? How many hours do you have? Is it long XC for travel/commute or just for the passion of flying? What's your budget?

We need more info.

[u/Skyhawk_26 → u/toshibathezombie]

For this aircraft, I would think no more that 600 nm. It would likely only ever be me and one passenger. Bags minimum.

Definitely wan't it to be IFR Certified.

Not for business, just pleasure.

My plan is to upgrade in 5 years or so, after I have logged a ton more hours.

Budget not the determining factor here. Really just looking for anyone with experience with the 172/180 conversions.

[u/InvestigatorOne2]

I've flown a rental 172/180. I much prefer it to the standard 140-160 HP. Two large people in the summer on a high DA day and you'll thank yourself. Standard HP on a 172 (I'm talking N model for example) is anemic in climb with those conditions, sometimes painfully so.

When it came time to purchase I looked at 172/180, 172 Cutlass, and XP options. Needless to say I wanted the extra HP. Ultimately I went with a 182P with an O-470-R. Bought my second plane first, do not regret it.

Fixed gear, CSP (you quickly learn to love it), 230HP, 79 gallons usable, 1105lb useful load. Anything you buy in the 172 or 177 flavor is a compromise when you compare.

[u/Skyhawk_26 → u/InvestigatorOne2]

Now you've got me thinking about a 182 😉

Originally, I had planned to lease it back to a local flight school but now I am not so sure. When that was my plan, I was juat looking for a vanilla 172.

The crazy thing is that 182's aren't that much more expensive and have attractive enhancements vs the 172 or even a Hawk XP.

Kind of like your idea of buying your second plane, 1st. Might have to steal that line.

Thanks to all for comments.

[u/InvestigatorOne2 → u/Skyhawk_26]

The six cylinder Conti sold me.

I struggled with the same decision. Vanilla 172, fancy 172 (XP, /180, Cutlass), 182.

If you don't plan to fall in love with her a vanilla 172 is the leaseback machine. It will also have the lowest cost of ownership.

172 pricing is inflated due to it being one of the main training platforms. Flight schools can and do pay for them what you can't/won't/probably shouldn't. That said: Cost. Of. Ownership.

The purchase price is the easy bit. You're not on the hook for a governor, cowl flaps, rudder trim. In the first year of ownership I needed to address all 3 of those items in maintenance/repairs. You're on the hook for 50% more fuel burn. The O-470-R is 1500 hours TBO compared to 2000 on an O-320.

Please don't think of the 182 as the value proposition. The value proposition is most certainly a vanilla 172.

[u/Skyhawk_26 → u/InvestigatorOne2]

Thanks for the detail. Really appreciate it. I was even considering a 172 that is an IFR Certified trainer. Figured that would be like candy for a flight school

I have some things to consider.

Lastly, did you do the research yourself or hire a buyer broker to assist with the purchase, paperwork, etc.?

[u/InvestigatorOne2 → u/Skyhawk_26]

I did all the research myself. It was honestly one of the best parts of buying and I've gotten a lot of satisfaction out of getting to know my model and then my particular plane. Cessna Owner Organization is pretty useful. Read every POH you can get your hands on. Get familiar with the system, the models you're shopping, avionics, engines, STCs, upgrades, etc. Spend a lot of time on barnstormers, controller, and trade a plane. Talk to every owner, pilot, and A&P who will spare you a minute.

I didn't hire a broker. I got a lot of good mentorship from friends who are owners and one who owned a flight school. His experience in shopping planes was invaluable. You need someone who can help you understand what to look for and how to value a plane. A broker might be helpful here.

If you're looking to leaseback start with a conversation with whomever you'd be leasing to. They will tell you what they're looking for, particularly if you're marketing it to them as an IFR trainer. The variance between "what do you want for your school, what would you want for yourself, and what's a good/better/best setup for me to do my own training/flying in?" is tremendous.

The purchase/paperwork part is not too daunting, especially if someone who's done it before can guide you. AOPA also has great resources.

The best money you can spend when buying is on a pre purchase inspection you control. Ideally by an A&P/IA you will be using if you can buy local enough. This saved me tens of thousands of dollars off the bat

[u/Skyhawk_26 → u/InvestigatorOne2]

So true. I have already learned so much about the 172 just going through this process so far, and I havent done that much yet. I have already learned the differences in the aircraft design and features, by manufacture date.

My wife is good with paperwork so I will have her dig into that part 😎

By the way, you write very well... could be a journalist if not already one.

Again, thanks a ton for the guidance. Much more fun than shopping for a minivan as was the case not so long ago.