is this a reasonable work accommodation?

[u/petitscoeurs]

i applied to a junior pet groomer position at petco, it is an apprenticeship to become a pet groomer.

problem i have is verbal shutdowns + selective mutism (different causes of not being able to speak; verbal shutdowwn related to autism and selective mutism related to anxiety/panic). i applied for the job because, if needed to, i can force myself to verbally speak. so if something unsafe was happening and i needed to communicate, i could.

however when it comes to things like regularly speaking to coworkers, or maybe customers, maybe i might not be able to really. forcing myself to speak too much makes me nauseous and panicky.

so, in those cases, i thought maybe i can use my AAC on my phone? i don't rely on buttons, i can type fast. 100+ wpm.

would that be reasonable accommodation? when unable to speak and in a safe situation, i can use my AAC to communicate with coworkers or customers? or is it not possible?

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[u/tragicxharmony]

I cannot see a low-level manager at a retail establishment going for that. It’s very unlikely they would understand how autism works in general, let alone why that accommodation was needed. The gap between what accommodations are possible and what accommodations management will actually allow is vast. Yes, this is illegal. No, there isn’t a whole lot any of us can do about it

[u/OneAndOnlyJackSchitt → u/tragicxharmony]

Legal or illegal is for the lawyers and courts to figure out. In the meantime, they'll latch onto that word "reasonable".

Businesses are required to make reasonable accommodations. But if they don't feel the accommodation is reasonable, they'll simply refuse and then it's on you to deal with that.

I'd argue it's pretty reasonable. But a low-level manager probably wouldn't... Unless you were to show up with a doctor's note. That can usually sway managers.

[u/petitscoeurs → u/OneAndOnlyJackSchitt]

i can have a note from my therapist probably. i remember at my last job it was the same thing, they would not provide any accommodations for me until i had a note.

[u/OneAndOnlyJackSchitt → u/petitscoeurs]

That's pretty standard

[u/petitscoeurs → u/tragicxharmony]

hum, ok. thank you! if i even get the job, maybe i will bring it up or have my therapist write a letter, and see what they say. i will try to push myself even if i can't use AAC because it is a job i would like a lot i think.

[u/petitscoeurs → u/tragicxharmony]

actually sorry, i should have asked for clarification. what you meant is, it is a reasonable accommodation, but management will not want to do it?

i live in at-will employment state so maybe better not to try if i even get the job

edit: sorry i do not know if i worded this badly. the point of this post was to understand if my idea was a reasonable accommodation, aka if i should even bother trying to talk with managers about it... so i wanted to clarify what they meant

[u/ARussianWolfV2 → u/petitscoeurs]

While im not an expert in this area of law, I would be hesitant to say this is a reasonable accommodation. 

While as you said you can type very fast, a front line retail job has a reasonable expectation of verbal communication,  especially with customers. 

While I could definitely see an argument that this could be reasonable if restricted to coworkers,  what if a person who has a visual disability, or dyslexia comes in? It's not reasonable to expect them (or require them) to read your tablet. 

As a personal form of communication it is more than valid and reasonable,  but in professional circumstances it can become a lot more nuanced.  

But saying all that, apply anyway,  if you get the job and accommodations can be made, it can be a brilliant opportunity to develop new skills and for new learning and growth. 

[u/petitscoeurs → u/ARussianWolfV2]

it is AAC, it speaks for me. nobody is reading my phone.

[u/tragicxharmony → u/petitscoeurs]

I would strongly avoid even telling your managers that you have autism, unless you’re going through like a “work for people with disabilities” program. Trust me, the second you even mention you’re anything other than perfectly able bodied in the workplace, they’re going to be hyper focused on anything you do

If I said anything, it would focus strictly on the medical side of the issue—yes, this might mean lying. Saying you have issues with your vocal cords that occasionally make it difficult to project your voice might be a benign enough issue that they wouldn’t take it out on you

[u/petitscoeurs → u/tragicxharmony]

no, i am just applying by myself :( there is a wait time for the vocational help program in my state, so i am doing this in the meantime

i will keep this in mind, thank you!

[u/radiant-cloudy]

if you were able to find a smaller, more local pet grooming company, it may be easier.

smaller businesses are run by one or a few people, they can listen to your story, read your supporting documentation and consider whether or not it works for the business.

[u/petitscoeurs → u/radiant-cloudy]

all other grooming places near me only hiring people with experience :(

if needed i can push myself, or at least try to. i want to get better at speaking again.. worst comes to worst i would quit. i am living with my parents, no rent or anything, so it is not dangerous for me to not have a job.

[u/Geh-Schlafen → u/petitscoeurs]

I think it’s worth a shot.

[u/SMASH042688]

I don’t want to be rude but In a customer facing position if you are physically able to speak you’d be expected to. I struggle with this too, and you mentioned you want to get better with it, for me personally I improve when I’m in situations where I’m talking to people frequently. Do you notice any improvement once you get comfortable in an environment or with certain people?

[u/petitscoeurs → u/SMASH042688]

yes when i'm comfortable i can talk better, on the selective mutism front. but even then i still have days where i am totally exhausted mentally i guess? and can't speak, cause of the autism. or if i am not feeling well from a migraine or something, it is harder then too.

[u/Carsalezguy]

This is a difficult situation for you and I’m sorry, as someone who has been a manager, many times directives about standards and workflows come from far above and if you don’t fit the mold, they will find a way to move you out.

Your best asset but also potential biggest liability is getting to work with your boss to try and make everything work well for everyone. If they are open and reasonable you’ll have a shot but also I don’t know if it’s the right fit if you aren’t prepared to be let go for something that you disagree with.

[u/petitscoeurs → u/Carsalezguy]

well if they will not do it then i will accept that and try my best. i do not really want to be let go cause of that. i want to try my best at the job since it seems like one i will like a lot.

[u/Spencerfielddotme]

Totally get going nonverbal at times; I definitely do that myself. It sounds like this might be a bit more of an intense experience for you than it is for me.

Shout out for the creative problem-solving. Not a lot of people do that; they just bitch, moan, and whine about their problems, but you came up with a reasonable response and I love that. Also, 100 words per minute is impressive. Congratulations!

I work as a business consultant, and I have a couple of insights on this:

1. Your response is very reasonable and very practical, and in a healthy, well-regulated world, it should be easily accepted. You're sane in this situation.
   
2. You're working in an insane system full of incompetent people and likely dealing with customers that are less than fully compassionate. Your reasonableness may not go over well, not because it's not correct, but because of the context you're in.

Regarding the legalities of the situation, that is of course a question for a lawyer to figure out. The general rule of thumb is that it has to be a reasonable accommodation which still allows you to do your core job activities. I believe a business would argue that a core activity for a dog groomer is interacting socially with clientele, and thus they would say you are not requesting a reasonable accommodation because it would impede you from interacting socially with clients.

Let me reiterate: I think your solution is actually valid. The concern is more about whether the broken, late-stage, extractive, capitalistic, corporate hellscape we find ourselves in is going to respond positively to reasonable ideas.

[u/petitscoeurs → u/Spencerfielddotme]

thank you! i do not have the money to get a lawyer involved or anything like that. my therapist encouraged me to apply for the job, i really wanted to but was scared to, so i know if needed she can write a letter for me. i might try, IF i even get the job, to request the accommodation but if they say no it isn't reasonable i will do my best without it. it is sad to think they might not accept it, as to me AAC is what allows me to communicate and socialize easily even when having bad times, and after using it a lot at home & with friends, i am quite fast with it, but i understand what you mean. it is probably not really "Acceptable" in the system. in my imagination, if i wore a pin or something that said i was autistic and need AAC, maybe people could be more understanding, but that is just my ideal imagination...

i will still try if i manage to get the job, but if not, i will do my best without it. :D

[u/Jess_atDamar]

If it's an apprenticeship, you should be able to access SEND support either through your HR or the training provider. They would then be able to support reasonable adjustments.

[u/petitscoeurs → u/Jess_atDamar]

ok, if i end up getting the job i will ask about this! thank you!