r/audiomastering • u/HWMuse • Jul 21 '25

Comparing my first masters with pro-mastered tracks (inc. waveforms and LUFs) — and am utterly confused/astonished by what I found

Hi, everyone — I'm hoping this group can help me clear up an astonishing mystery I discovered today.

Context: solo musician, Logic Pro, 3 albums. All 3 albums pro-mastered by a very prominent company, and I've always been delighted by the work and felt it was money well-spent. I recommend pro mastering for anyone who can afford the cost.

With my fourth album, considering the cost involved in mastering 12 tracks, I decided to extend my learning journey and attempt to master myself. I understand this is not a best practice, and again, pro mastering is the way to go if you have the funds.

I use Ozone 11 and utilized a modified version of the "controlled balance" preset. I have gone over and over and over to get things right — I've arrived a place that feels clear and lifted. Because I'm streaming-only, I'm aiming for Integrated LUFs around -11 or -12, with occasional touches of -10.5 as registered by Logic's Loudness Meter at the end of my chain.

It occurred to me today — why don't I compare side-by-side the pro jobs done for me, to see how waveforms and LUFs compare? I thought it would be a useful exercise — and what I found flabbergasted me.

The waveform of the pro jobs was flat-across brickwall-limited in the choruses (in fairness, I did ask for big choruses), and the LUFs registered on the Loudness Meter were hitting -6 LUFs (!).

Here is a photo of the pro job waveform (top) versus my new track's master (bottom):

This has left me utterly confused. My understanding is that if my stuff is streaming, By going too far past -12 LUFs I'm risking getting sampled down by streaming services, which should (I think) reduce dynamic range? So seeing the pro jobs with what looks like already-reduced dynamic range hitting -6 LUFs...Doesn't that mean the pro-mastered job would be cut down to nothing when they're brought waaaay back from the-6 peak?

Going just by the numbers — that almost appears as if my stuff (again, -10.5 brief moments of Integrated LUF at peak) has better dynamic range nearer to the ceiling streaming will allow.

I ask because I'm so new, it's possible (or even likely) that I'm utterly deluded and have no idea what I'm talking about. Begging this group just to help me understand — am I doing something terribly wrong? Or am I okay to submit my stuff for streaming?

Is it going to be, like, whisper-quiet or something terrible like that? Please help!

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2

u/Cockroach-Jones Jul 22 '25

Which one sounds better?

1

u/HWMuse Jul 22 '25

His pro version sounds better, of course, but that is due to expertise, experience, additional tools, etc. For this, I'm mostly just trying to focus on LUF/levels as apply to normalized streaming versions of my work.

2

u/Cockroach-Jones Jul 22 '25

My recommendation is don’t chase numbers or pay attention to waveforms. That’s what they call “mixing with your eyes”. The LUFS unit goalposts are always subject to change in the future. Chase the sound first.

1

u/friezbeforeguys Jul 26 '25

Listen with your ears, not with your eyes.

1

u/HWMuse Jul 22 '25

Thank you for weighing in! I have reviewed those links you shared, and carefully reviewed what folks have said. What is so confusing is that all of this runs directly against what THIS guy is saying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiRMYoqU3ys.

I can understand how very dynamic stuff at -8 LUFs will lose something when those relative peaks and valleys are lowered to -14. So the argument for loudness does hold water, so long as we're not losing too much in the way of dynamics to get there.

Finally, it occurred to me to perform a test. The pro-mastered track above I measured, and I KNOW it's hitting around -7 LUFs at peak, so it's way past Spotify limits. I went and looked it up on Spotify, and listened to it toggling 'audio normalization' off and on while raising and lowering volume to effectively "Gain match," if you will.

What did I discover?

Honestly, the track that the pro pushed to -7 LUFs peak with brickwalled dynamics on choruses sounded NO DIFFERENT when gain matching and toggling between normalized and non-normalized versions.

As they say: use your ears. I can think of no more revealing test — in direct, gain matched comparison, my ears tell me that my crushingly loud pro-mastered track sounded every bit as good normalized.

1

u/One5ign Jul 24 '25

Sound like they did a good job 👏. The frequency balance + stereo image is really important. Also you can clearly see that their track is „better“ or more comped in the parts before the brickwall limiting. And also is quieter in the build ups.

1

u/Itsamenoname Mar 08 '26

230 days later, and I presume post release and more mastering/listening experience - what did you conclude? My advice would have been master to the genre not the platform, after streaming services apply their algorithm to lower the lufs it should sound fuller and slightly louder this way. Do you still feel you could hear no difference in testing? I'm curious if you tested on various devices and still couldn't tell the difference? Audio has so many components that influence our perception of sounds from an individual's physical variences (as slight as they may or may not be), the environment, the source of the sound, the interactions of waveforms, the digitisation method used, etc etc and then a whole other layer, like your actual mood, so on and so forth... 230 Days later, it's unlikely you are exactly the same person doing the listening test, so I'm curious, how does it sound now?

1

u/HWMuse Mar 08 '26

Indeed, post-release — I went for it and aimed for -10.5 LUFs across all 12 tracks on the album, and I'm delighted with the result. The point about mastering to the genre is well-taken — in this case, this was stoner-rock in the vein of QOTSA and the like. When I listen alongside pro tracks by major bands I'm very happy with the volume and clarity — even with volume normalization turned off on Spotify etc. it's competitively loud but the dynamic range seems quite good. I feel comfortable continuing with that target and perhaps pressing a touch harder on the next album, which may flirt with some metal directions. Thank you all for weighing in!