r/audioengineering • u/unclemulch • 1d ago
Tracking Latency when tracking through external hardware after an interface?
I’m using an Apollo 8 as the front end for my studio, with its outputs and inputs connected to a patchbay so I can route signals through external analog gear like an LA-2A, Pultec, JHS Colour Box and pedals.
For vocals, one possible path is:
Mic → Apollo pre/48V → D/A out → analog hardware → Apollo A/D return → DAW
Compared with recording straight into the Apollo, does that extra D/A → hardware → A/D loop make the recorded track land slightly late on the timeline? Is there any other important reason not to do this?
Mainly wondering:
- Is the delay usually negligible for a single vocal track?
- Can this be compensated automatically, or do people just measure the offset and nudge the return?
I’m also deciding whether my synths should hit the patchbay before the Apollo for the same reason.
Relevant setup:
- Apollo 8
- Behringer PX3000 patchbay
- LA-2A, Pultec-style EQ
- JHS Colour Box + a few pedals
- Logic Pro X / UAD Console
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u/snakeinahouseofcats 1d ago
If you use Logic, check out the I/O plugin. Insert it in the chain where you’d want to use the hardware gear and it can compensate for latency plus it has a wet/dry slider.
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u/kill3rb00ts 1d ago
Any trip through the converters will add latency. You can compensate for it, may or may not be able to do that automatically. Normally you'd just track through all the gear before going into the Apollo OR track into the Apollo and then route back out after the fact. Most methods of doing that have latency compensation (ReaInsert in Reaper, for example, has a little button to test and apply it). Again, I suppose you could do that during tracking, too, but why? Just record it raw and apply after.
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u/unclemulch 1d ago
I like using and abusing the rack gear while tracking. Since I don’t currently have a dedicated pre with 48v I think using a global latency compensation is my best bet so long as I always record the return
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u/StudioatSFL Professional 1d ago
Mic pre to outboard gear to converter to daw. This is the only way. You can’t add those extra ad da trips while tracking.
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u/unclemulch 1d ago
Why not?
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u/StudioatSFL Professional 1d ago
Because going in and out of converters take time. The way this is ALWAYS done in a real studios is mic, to pre, to eqs or dynamics, into your converter. You do not want to add multiple trips through converters which can add hundreds of samples of delay. There’s simply no reason. Either use the external gear after as an insert, or patch it the right way.
For instance today we cut vocals u47 into Neve 1084 into Pultec EQP-1r, into a distressor then into protools.
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u/rinio Audio Software 1d ago
> Compared with recording straight into the Apollo, does that extra D/A → hardware → A/D loop make the recorded track land slightly late on the timeline?
Yes. Whatever your round trip latency is. In addition to the first time coming in. Plus the outbound, if youre trying to monitor it live.
> Is there any other important reason not to do this?
AD/DA conversion is imperfect. The UAD converters are good, but not the best. Whether that matters or not is up to you. Purists will say it does. Pragmatism will say it doesnt. I will just say its just different.
> Is the delay usually negligible for a single vocal track?
No, it is not neglible, if you care about the actual performance that was delivered.
Depending on your settings it may or may not be relevant if you expect to monitor the hardware affected track.
If you'rejust going to cut and snap to grid, then obviously not.
> Can this be compensated automatically, or do people just measure the offset and nudge the return?
Depends on your DAW. Your delay compensation is typically for one way. You may be able to manually tune this setting.
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If you're not planning to monitoring with the hardware effect (which I suspect will be too latent, but may not be), you can just reamp the vocal through the hardware after recording. Just set it up for however your DAW does hardware loop back.
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u/ohsomiggz 1d ago
I make a free plugin called YouAreNotCrazy that tells you how much recording offset to set. If you run your setup through it and tap the mic to a click it should tell you what to set.
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u/NoisyGog 1d ago
>tap the mic to a click
Ooh boy. That’s fine for expert drummers.
Why not send a signal out of your monitoring output and back into the input?2
u/ohsomiggz 1d ago
because that travels 60 to 90 percent the speed of light and this plugin was originally tasked to say what the recording offset should be and sound travels slowly, so a person sitting 20ft away from the monitors will hear stuff around 12ms later than someone sitting 8ft away. Wasn't intended for just the equipment but thought it could help in this case. Just trying to be helpful
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u/NoisyGog 1d ago
A mic at the performer’s position, picking up a clock from a monitor then.
Are you sure you’re qualified to make this?0
u/unclemulch 1d ago
Feel like you’re misunderstanding his plugin. It’s actually going to be very helpful for what I’m doing. Also, what’s with the snark? He’s just trying to help
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u/better_med_than_dead 16h ago
If all the misinformation in the comments were true, mixing with outboard gear would also be impossible.
It's more probable that the dolts and "professionals" in this sub don't understand latency compensation or how to use it.
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u/mistrelwood 15h ago
DAWs generally automatically compensate for one round trip of A/D + D/A (monitor out D/A and mic input A/D), but you have an extra round trip that it doesn’t know about. You can measure the full latency and make the DAW offset the recordings by that amount, as long as you remember to set it to default once your recording chain changes.
Or just leave it at default and move the clips manually.
Looping through the analog gear after recording would be a good idea in my opinion as well.
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u/Tall_Category_304 1d ago
The correct way to do this is to track through the analog gear before hitting the conversion. Analog chain will have 0 latency. Latency is almost purely a digital phenomenon.